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Subject: MEETING MINUTES -- 11 October 2005 -- DITA TECHNICAL COMMITTEE
MEETING MINUTES -- 11 October 2005 -- DITA TECHNICAL COMMITTEE (Minutes taken by Seraphim Larsen <seraphim.l.larsen@intel.com>) DITA Technical Committee website: - Public: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita - Members only: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/ - Roll call - We do have quorum today. - Review/approve minutes from previous meetings - http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/download.php/14855/TC- Meeting-Minutes-04-October-2005.txt - One item incorrectly attributed to Bruce Esrig; not sure to whom to attribute. - Seraphim moved to accept the minutes as read; Alan Houser seconded; approved by acclamation - Actions (see http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/members/action_items.p hp) - Not covered - News: Mailing list for DITA Focus Area Editorial Board - Don drew attention to the following posting: - http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/email/archives/200510/ msg00041.html - Write-in: Make sure we capture any items that have not been discussed -- no more new items to be accepted after the end of the month - Action (Yas Ettessam): Go through all the sign-up lists and minutes, and capture all the items that have been approved since June. What is left over that hasn't been fully discussed? - Yas Ettessam volunteered to do that. - Don -- Is anyone working on anything else that still needs to be discussed/approved by the committee that will be ready by the end of the month? - Chris Kravogel -- - #4 xNAL - #5 ANSI warning labels - #8 Allow <tm> to contain images or logoized content - Indi Liepa -- Working on item #19 (more general task type), but stuck because of lack of time. Do hope to finish by end of month. - Eric Sirois -- Item #35 (unknown element). Trying to get all the people together so we can put the final proposal together. - Michael Priestley -- Plan to finish the following by end of month: - 6, 14, 17, 20, 40, 42, 43 - Resume prepared issues in queue: - #45 Add "See", "See Also" indexing elements (original proposal--now replaced by the next 3) - http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/download.php/14639/Iss ueNumber45.html - Issue #45: Add See, See Also indexing elements - http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200510/msg00042.html - Eliot Kimber -- "See" is used when you have redirection to another entry in the index; if you have a "See", then you don't have anything else under that entry. "See also" does allow you to have other items under that entry. - Chris Wong -- Agrees. - Eliot -- But it doesn't seem that the content model is actually structured that way. - Bruce Esrig -- It may be necessary to be weak in that way. The existing content model doesn't specify that you can't break up the text mix with subordinate index entry info. In order to do that, you'd have to enclose the text in a new element. (Such as Michael's suggestion: <indextext>) - Eliot -- We're constrained by the current index term content model -- we don't have the option of defining new element types that have a more conventional content model (primary, secondary, tertiary) (such as in DocBook). - Don Day -- But by explicitly marking the hierarchy, you lose the ability to insert an index into another index. - Bruce -- You can make the tag names level-independent (as DITA already does). - Eliot -- How is that different from using primary/secondary/tertiary? - Bruce -- You can grab one of the lower pieces and use it again somewhere else. (The scenario Don is proposing.) - For example, one item might appear under two headings: <indexterm>Fish <indexterm id="Carp">Carp</indexterm> </indexterm> ... later ... <indexterm>Long thin things that swim <indexterm conref="filename.xml#Carp"></indexterm> </indexterm> - Note: A better example would show the level changing too. Also, it would be better to have both instances get the indexentry for Carp from a separate file. - Eliot -- But I can't imagine anyone actually doing that. - Don -- Someone might want to conref to an index term, from another index term. - Eliot -- Why would that be better than just retyping the word "carp"? - Michael Priestley -- Seems to recall some fairly common situations where (for example) you'd have an API name, and you'd have that item under its own entry, and also under a generic index list that inluded all APIs. - ?? - But would you do that with conref? - Paul Prescod -- Is anyone actually proposing that? (using conref) - Michael Priestley -- What's the cost-benefit analysis for the user? - Eliot -- You have a wrapper that wraps around the primary, secondary, and tertiary entries. - Chris Wong -- We need to stay backwards-compatible; we can't restrict index-term further. - Don -- The proper thing to do for 1.1 is to update the spec and define standard behavior for tools in respect to index-terms and for titles in sections--known loose structure at the base level. - Michael -- - Paul Prescod -- The user is putting things where they are not allowed -- exactly Eliot's comment. - Eliot -- The desire from the data-modelling viewpoint is that with "See" you don't have any levels in the content model. - Paul -- We are already down the path of defining these constraints. - Eliot -- Is that really where we are at? - Bruce -- There's a content model where all sub-elements are optional. You have rules, but the language doesn't offer a convenient way of restricting it within the tool. - Robert Anderson -- Question: somebody said use "See" when there are no other subentries; use "See also" when there *are* other entries. What happens when another topic defines a sub-entry? - Eliot -- Error condition. - Bruce -- You can't ensure the global semantics because you are defining everything locally; the only way to check it is for the user to generate the index and see the erroneous result. - Chris Wong -- But the two mean different things when output in the index. Sometimes you do mean "see also" and not "see", even if there are no other entries. - Michael -- Robert has a legitimate use-case. When you have a topic that gets reused in another collection of topics. - Bruce -- If both "See" and "See Also" occur, then establish a rule that "See Also" is preferred? - Robert -- A topic can be used in one context where it is "see", and then reused in another collection where there are other sub-entries. Users should not have to change <see> to <see-also> for the new context. - Michael -- You define just one term, "See", and it changes to "See" or "See Also" depending on the context. It's an override. Even if "See" is specified in the source, when any other content occurs (typically in another instance), the "See" gets converted to a "See also" for output purposes, and the other content is preserved in the result. - Chris Wong -- So it's a processing effect. The markup stays the same. If a "see" has to be downgraded to a "see also", it suggests an error in the content. - Robert -- So - if a <see> ends up with other sub-entries, it changes to "See also" in the index output. The entry is still processed as a <see>, that is, the primary term does not get a page number where the <see> is defined. - Don -- Where do we go from here? Take it to the list? We need Erik Hennum's participation here anyway. - Bruce -- We've had some dispersion on the list; we need to discuss this in conversation. People are naming criteria whether to do or not do certain things. It needs to be discussed in order to decide as a group which criteria to accept. - Don -- So, we need Erik on the phone. - Paul -- Can we have interim calls focused on this topic? - Don -- Design issues should be worked out on the design teams. Recommends that Chris sets up a workgroup call to converge on these design points. The TC responsibility is simply to approve or disapprove. - Chris Wong -- Will take action to set up a conference call to discuss this issue. - That's all, out of time! - Issue #45a: Add sort order indexing elements - http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200510/msg00043.html - No time, not addressed - Issue #45b: Add page range indexing elements - http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200510/msg00044.html - No time, not addressed - Issue #47 Structured Sections - http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200510/msg00045.html - No time, not addressed - Issue 34: Constraints - restriction without specialization (was replacement domains) - http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200510/msg00047.html - No time, not addressed - Issue 32: Domain and topic integration - http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200510/msg00048.html - No time, not addressed - New proposals (unnumbered) from members: - Extensibility of DITA through new attributes - http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200508/msg00065.html - http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200508/msg00069.html and following - No time, not addressed - Styling Options for Conditional Text - http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200508/msg00066.html and following - http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200509/msg00025.html - No time, not addressed - Recognizing DITA Documents - http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200508/msg00067.html and following - No time, not addressed - Start of documenting DITA design principles (Paul Prescod) - http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200510/msg00005.html - No time, not addressed 8:50-8:55 Announcements/Opens - No time, not addressed <end> ___________________________________________________________ Seraphim Larsen CIG Operations / TPPE Senior Technical Writer Intel Corporation (480) 552-6504 Chandler, AZ The content of this message is my personal opinion only. Although I am an employee of Intel, the statements I make here in no way represent Intel's position on the issue, nor am I authorized to speak on behalf of Intel on this matter. ___________________________________________________________
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