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Subject: Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 22 October 2019 uploaded
- From: Nancy Harrison<nharrison@infobridge-solutions.com>
- To: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
- Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 16:12:39 +0000 (UTC)
Submitter's message
ActionItems:
1. Kris will talk to other dita-users moderators about imminent shutdown of Yahoo groups.
=================================================
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 22 October 2019
Recorded by Hancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://wiki.OASIS-open.org/dita/PreviousAgendas
Attendance:
Robert Anderson, Deb Bissantz, Carsten Brennecke, Bill Burns, Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Carlos Evia, Nancy Harrison, Scott Hudson, Eliot Kimber, Joyce Lam, Zoe Lawson, Eric Sirois
Business
========
1. Roll call
Regrets: Chris Nitchie, Dawn Stevens, Keith Schengili-Roberts
2. Approve minutes from previous business meeting:
15 October 2019
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201910/msg00109.html (Harrison, 17 October 2019)
moved by Kris, 2nd by Bill, approved by TC
3. Announcements:
None
4. Action items
[following are items completed or in progress; for complete list, see agenda for this meeting]
05 March 2019:
Alan: Update DITA 2.0 files for appropriate elements with LwD hint values for @format and create a pull request; due 23 April COMPLETED
28 May 2019:
Chris: Look at draft-comment in spec WD03, section 8.2.2.19, page 210 IN PROGRESS
20 August 2019
Kris: Consider issue #163, discuss with Deb, and make recommendation to TC COMPLETED
15 October 2019
Zoe: Provide review of #21 by EOB on 18 October 2019 COMPLETED
Kris: Provide concerns about #233 to Eliot ASAP COMPLETED
5. DITA 2.0 stage two proposals
Vote
#29 Bookmap update revised
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201910/msg00104.html (Eberlein, 15 October 2019)
- Kris; I've made slight changes, but nothing significant to the discussed version.
Kris moved to advance this to stage 3, 2nd by Eric
Voting results:
yes votes: 13 (Robert Anderson, Deb Bissantz, Carsten Brennecke, Bill Burns, Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Carlos Evia, Nancy Harrison, Scott Hudson, Eliot Kimber, Joyce Lam, Zoe Lawson, Eric Sirois)
no votes: 0
[stage 3 reviewers Eric, Eliot, Nancy]
6. DITA 2.0 stage three proposals
Vote
#278 Remove lockmeta attribute
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201910/msg00100.html (Burns, 14 October 2019)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201910/msg00101.html (Anderson, 14 October 2019)
Bill moved to approve #278 for implementation, 2nd by Eliot
Voting results:
yes votes: 13 (Robert Anderson, Deb Bissantz, Carsten Brennecke, Bill Burns, Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Carlos Evia, Nancy Harrison, Scott Hudson, Eliot Kimber, Joyce Lam, Zoe Lawson, Eric Sirois)
no votes: 0
#252 Add outputclass to DITAVAL elements
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201910/msg00076.html (Anderson, 10 October 2019)
Robert moved to approve #252 for implementation, 2nd by Zoe
Voting results:
yes votes: 13 (Robert Anderson, Deb Bissantz, Carsten Brennecke, Bill Burns, Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Carlos Evia, Nancy Harrison, Scott Hudson, Eliot Kimber, Joyce Lam, Zoe Lawson, Eric Sirois)
no votes: 0
#164 Redesign hazardstatement
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201910/msg00098.html (Eberlein, 14 October 2019)
Kris moved to approve #164 for implementation, 2nd by Eric
Voting results:
yes votes: 13 (Robert Anderson, Deb Bissantz, Carsten Brennecke, Bill Burns, Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Carlos Evia, Nancy Harrison, Scott Hudson, Eliot Kimber, Joyce Lam, Zoe Lawson, Eric Sirois)
no votes: 0
Initial discussion
#21: Resolve inconsistent class values for shortdesc, linktext, and searchtitle
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201910/msg00119.html (Kimber, 22 October 2019)
- Eliot gave overview, re-capping email above; essentially about adding @outputclass to elements that logically should have it.
- Kris; questions or comments?
- Zoe; I'm no longer at IBM (as in proposal); now work for Casenet. [Eliot will fix]
- Kris; any objections?
[none; vote next week]
7. Migrating to DITA 2.0 committee note
Starting thoughts on a migration document
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201910/msg00102.html (Lawson, 15 October 2019)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201910/msg00105.html (Anderson, 15 October 2019)
Audience for migration document
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201910/msg00106.html (Eberlein, 16 October 2019)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201910/msg00108.html (Lawson, 16 October 2019)
- Kris; discussion involves questions about migration notes; we want to provide clear guidance to users on how to migrate frmom 1.x -> 2.0
- Zoe; there are a lot of DITA things I havnn't done; e.g. specializations, cnstraints; so I can't provide migration info on them. I think migration guide should be giving recommended best peraactices; i.e., "if you do this task the way we tell you, it should work in the end". My thought is, we should ignore hard stuff first, just go thru easy/obvious stuff first, then do stuff that takes a bit more work, e.g., Oxygen refactoring/scripts, then the really hard stuff. I see 3 types of audience:
1. people making source compliant
2. people writing processors
3. people doing specializations/constriants
- Robert; if I need to migrate, can you give me a list of things I need to change? plus how to change them? At this point, I can see at least 2 or 3 migration guides that are all different. For instance, in the case of new features, we may want to say "this is new and this is how you use it" - we never did that before for migration itself. I see 3 major parts:
1. how to migrate content
2. how to migrate implementation
3. how to migrate processor
- Zoe; I don't know if the 'new feature' content goes into migration guide or into spec.
- Kris; historically, we've had a topic in the spec on changes between releases; but we never before introduced backwards incompatibile changes.
- Robert; when you're going to a point release, that makes sense, but 2.0 is new. I don't think we need all the 1.0/1.1/1.2 -> 2.0 stuff.
- Kris; so maybe we need 3 migration docs;
1. here's what's new and different and why you might want to move to them.
2. for DITA content, here's how to migrate.
3. for implementers and processors, here's what to do.
- Zoe; 2 and 3 might share some content, or not...
- Kris; we'll see when we're get into it. The audience for migration doc [see Kris's mail above] because we're changing specialization bases and other stuff, folks will have to update css and pdf stylesheets. this is expanding on 'processors and source' to looking at stylesheets, doc shells, rendering stylesheets, things authors won't care about.
- Zoe; but in many cases one person wears 2 or 3 hats. in small shops the same person does stylesheets, constraints, doc shells. etc.
- Kris; but all of those are distinct tasks, so you might want to cover them separately. and they're not the same person for larger shops.
- Stan; there's also more of a non-technical audience; mgmt and funding folks, they're often reluctant to move because of migration costs. They want a way to estimate costing /staffing.
- Kris; so we need to at least talk about what the parts are.
- Nancy; so we need to start by listing all the types of owners, and for each task, listing owners involved in that migration piece.
- Stan; we need to correlate tasks with skills required; anything that shares our knowledge of how to plan migration is very useful.
- Kris; one thing that might be helpful is for some of these categories, to have a checklist/flowchart; e.g., updating doc shells/constraint modules; have you specialized shortdesc? And so do you have to make hcanges to spec modules? etc., etc.
- Zoe; there should be an overview of what major roles and tawsks are.
- Kris; we might want to start pushing out info on migrating to 2.0 sooner rather than later. We could initially start with 'preparing for 2.0' CN with stuff like; what was previously deprecated and is now removed in 2.0, so folks can start getting rid of it in their content; and then continue to send out suggestions as we get closer to release.
- Zoe; I agree; the sooner the better, though some folks will ignore it.
- Kris; any more thoughts? I have a tangential question, wrt audiences. I use 'implementation' loosely, to mean e.g. here's a company's set of everything, including source, content models, stylesheets, tools, CCMS, etc. Is there a better term than implementation for that bunch o stuff?
- Nancy; I use the same term, but maybe also DITA environment.
- Robert; not sure I have a word, but also maybe environment.
- Kris; might ecosystem work?
- Zoe; if I used ecosystem, it would include tools.
- Robert; yes, for me also ecosystem would include tools and how my stuff plays with others's stuff.
- Kris; we may not come up with the perfect noun, and we might have to define one. any suggestions? We need a term for "if you're using DITA, you have 'x', and migrating will affect .....", including your stylesheets, content models, and tools, editors, CCMS, and migrating hits all of those pieces.
- Zoe; I still like 'implementation', but i'm not sure.
- Scott; maybe it's more a configuration than an implementation.
- Kris; it certainly involves configuration, it's a configuration of your implementation, or your environment, or your ecosystem....
- Scott; I see configurations as how you implement things.
- Kris; to me, 'configuration' doesn't include the DITA source... any more thoughts? we haven't come to any conclusion, so please think about this, Zoe, think about how you want to move forward; do we need to parcel this out?
[to be continued next week]
8. Loss of Yahoo dita-users archive; does the TC want/need to respond to this in any way?
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201910/msg00112.html (Harrison, 18 October 2019)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201910/msg00113.html (Eberlein, 19 October 2019)
- Nancy; Yahoo is essentially shutting down Yahoo groups sites, and we need to consider what to do with the dita-users listserv, which is heavily used and the most common interface between users and the TC.
- Kris; dita-users group originally came out of TC, owner is MIchael Priestley, moderators are current and/or past TC members. Once I became aware of this, I did some investigation, and I advocate that we migrate to groups.io; they have same functionality as yahoo plus some more. What I especially like about groups.io is, they have a built-in way to automatically extract/upload all data from the current group. They also allow use of semantic labels to do subgroups, Users can just use their email acct. Unless someone has serious concerns, we'll probably do that (go to groups.io). Does anyone have personal experience with groups.io?
[no responser]
- Kris; OASIS is currently using groups.io for their open projects.
- Nancy; I suggest that if no one here has serious objections, we just decide to do that.
- Kris; does any one object?
[none - TC supports moving to groups.io]
- Kris; I'll talk to other dita-users moderators.
- Nancy; some of the current moderators may no longer want to be involved.
- Kris; yes, some of them are 'courtesy' moderators; we may be looking for new ones.
***ActionItem: Kris will talk to other dita-users moderators about imminent shutdown of Yahoo groups.
9. DITA 2.0 proposal: #163 Element for referencing subject scheme map
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201910/msg00111.html (Eberlein, 18 October 2019)
[skipped this week; TC member should think about it]
10. Review of DITA 2.0 proposal deadlines
https://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/DeadlinesDITA2.0
Stage two
(Evia) Column/row spanning in simpletable (https://github.com/oasis-tcs/dita/issues/292)
22 October 2019: Submit to reviewers (Anderson, Kimber)
- Carlos; new date 11/5 to reviewers
Stage three
(Anderson) Remove domains attribute (https://github.com/oasis-tcs/dita/issues/217)
22 October 2019: Send to reviewers (Brennecke, Eberlein, Kimber)
- Robert; push back one week to 10/29
(Hudson) Allow example in more places (https://github.com/oasis-tcs/dita/issues/297)
ETA for proposal to go to reviewers (Brennecke, Doherty)?
- Scott; try for 11/1 to send to reviewers
12 noon ET close
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison
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