Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 24 May 2022 uploaded

[Nancy Harrison<nharrison@infobridge-solutions.com>]

        Submitter's message
        ActionItems: 
1. Kris will respond to Stefan, and maybe we need an item list for 2.1, maybe we already have one. Stefan's not really giving us info o his requirements or why he thinks this is really necessary...
2. Kris will reach out to Mike Iantosca to talk about Avalara's potential participation in TC.
3. Robert should add 'adding @title to reltable' to Github list of late corrections like this.



=================================================
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 24 May 2022
Recorded by Hancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:	
https://wiki.OASIS-open.org/dita/PreviousAgendas

Attendance:
===========
Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Nancy Harrison, Scott Hudson, Gershon Joseph, Zoe Lawson, Keith Schengili-Roberts, Eric Sirois, Dawn Stevens, Frank Wegmann


Business
========
1. Roll call
   Regrets: Robert Anderson, Carsten Brennecke, Eliot Kimber


2. Approve minutes from previous business meeting:
        10 May 2022
            https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202205/msg00016.html (Harrison, 23 May 2022)
                Corrections: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202205/msg00017.html (Eberlein, 24 May 2022) 
moved [as corrected] by Kris, 2nd by Scott, approved by TC


3. Announcements
- Kris; wrt action item from May 10th for Stan to look thru rosters to look for new TC members; can we put you on next tc call?
- Stan; sure.


4. Action items
        23 November 2021:
            Scott: Pursue possibilities of using Syncrosoft tooling for reviews 
        15 February 2022:
            Eliot: Develop example for using object element for an iFrame 
        10 May 2022:
            Stan: To look through OASIS rosters and develop list of companies for use in recruiting to the TC 

  
5. Review of DITA 2.0 proposal deadlines
        https://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/DeadlinesDITA2.0 
(Eberlein) Remove classification domain and add new attribute (https://github.com/oasis-tcs/dita/issues/647)

    13 May 2022: Submit to reviewers (Brennecke, Joseph)
    ?: Feedback provided by reviewers
    ?: TC discussion
    ?: Vote by TC 
- Kris; I was planning to submit this to reviewers, but before it can be reviewed by TC, it needs to be discussed We could discuss it today, but to make any decisions I thinkw e need to have Robert and Eliot present, so we'll hold off till they'e here.


6. dita-comment list
        Please implement a figure legend to the next DITA release
            https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita-comment/202205/msg00000.html (Stefan Eike, 20 May 2022) 
- Kris; we can't do this in 2.0, but it's interesting item; before I respond to him, I should note that I've built things like this.
- Scott; I thought there was a way to do that already...
- Kris; there are ways to handle it without semantic structure; clients I've done this for had strict semantics and wanted to index this. Other clients just wanted a figure, so I just did a callout item.
- Scott; this image map doesn't quite do it either; you'd really want a closer tie behind items in the diagram and corresponding items in the table below it.  Not sure whether we have enough markup to do that; I think I used imagemap in my rendition.
Kris; in my experience, most people just want the table after the image.
- Gershon; for my clients, we do callouts as part of SVG, and they get translated as part of translation; easier to do with text callouts rather than other callouts.
- Kris; that depends on companies' relationship with their translation vendors. And you can't do that for callouts that require a lot of text. Any thoughts?
- Zoe; does it belong in the new hardware domain?
- Kris; that would take it out of the base, and they can be used for things other than hardware.
- Zoe; ok
- Scott; do we want to semantically tie legend item to part of the diagram? That would help with linkage between items; otherwise why wouldn't we just use table in fig?
- Kris; the only reason is if clients want some special formatting, like a black box about item 1.
***ActionItem: Kris will respond to Stefan, and maybe we need an item list for 2.1, maybe we already have one. Stefan's not really giving us info o his requirements or why he thinks this is really necessary...



7. Report from LwDITA subcommittee
- Frank; wrt LwD SC, we're now having mtgs more regularly, and we've discussed some of things on agenda, e.g. sample data from Stan, test cases came up with new ones,  I'm getting sense that I'm slowly being able to moderate it. 
At last mtg we had a discussion wrt ConVex; there were 2 LwD presentations on it there; one by me on basics, and hints at what you can do with it now. and another by Mark Giffin on Markdown and related things. Since I wasn't there, mine was very lightly attended, but Mark's had about 20 people. He got some questions, one from Mike Iantosca of Avalara (Michael Priestley is now there). Mike was at my presentation for potential TC participants; Mike would like to have a couple of people on the TC, but the current terms of service are quite steep.  Kris, maybe you could talk to him about it. 
- Kris; I'll do that
***ActionItem; Kris will reach out to Mike Iantosca to talk about Avalara's potential participation in TC.


8. (Continued) GitHub issue: dita-lwdita
        [Kris: We need to handle this as if it were feedback coming in through dita-comment]
        Cannot create inline graphics in HTML5 output (Issue #60)
            https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202204/msg00010.html (forwarded by Eberlein; from DTC-tobin)
            https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202204/msg00010.html 
        Has LwDITA subcommittee responded to issue on GitHub?
- Frank; we got the topic on github. I just made a test case to see how this is being treated; we have to find out if DITA-OT does what it should, and come back witha n answer. I'm wondering if this is a channel that's being used more often than I know about.
- Kris; some people comment directly on Github, I'd prefer they use dita-comment, but stuff does come in as Github issues and I'd like to respond to them there.  I responded, but you, as head of LwD SC, shoud do so as well.  You don't have to say everything, but just to respond that you've seen issue and SC has dsicussed it.
- Frank; I'll do that.  The group has become smaller, since Alan Hauser has left OASIS for good...
- Kris; that's not the first time Alan has left OASIS 'for good'....   Any questions or comments? 
[none] 
- Kris; any progress on spec?
- Frank; not yet, but we're starting to work on it as soon as my next travel is done. 
- Kris; it would be very helpful if the TC could get an updated copy of LwD spec; I know some stuff in @ section is old and corrupt; maybe you can comment out the complete @ section so the rest of the spec could be published.
- Frank; that's one of the things we can do to get spec published.


9. Scale attribute
        https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202205/msg00006.html (Stevens, 12 May 2022) 
- Kris; we can only do a light discussion without Dawn. I haven't looked at this; I looked at what's in base  for image and fig; @scale is defined differently for them. I don't really know what the history is, we'll have to wait for Robert for more info. Anyone have insights to offer?
[none] 
- Kris; as for video allowing height and width but not @scale. probably this is because we replicated HTML5 and it's not in that.
- Scott; that's correct.
- Kris; not only is it not in HTML5, but would it have any utility for that element if it was in there?  I don't see use cases...
- Eric; it's not obvious, but what if you were trying to do something on phone vs full screen?
- Nancy; wouldn't it be binary? just as-is or full screen?
- Kris; we'll hold for Robert, but I can't see utility or sense on video; we'll just hold this.
[Dawn joined call at this point]
- Kris; @scale is defined differently in subjectScheme and in other places, wrt to your questiona about @scale in video, we couldn't come up with any use cases.
- Dawn; I didn't think there were either, till I had a client who specifically wanted it.  My understanding of why there isn't one is that we wanted to match HTML5. but I just wanted to see if there was anything else I could share with them. Also, they're using object inside a figure, I don't see why you couldn't do the same thing, so I don't see why could couldn't do the same thing with video.
- Kris; also, @scale is usually used for print-based output, don't know how it would be implementd for digital media.
- Dawn; client has videos that have height/width specified in pixels, so ...   I agree that there shouldn't be a need
- Kris; we need to follow up on your first question, but I don't think we need to follow up on video.
- Dawn; yeah, it's not something that people want to do.
- Kris; we'll have to hold for Robert 
- Dawn; I talked to him about it, and he said he didn't have any particular reasons; he felt that if someone proposed that change, we could do it.
- Kris; I would think of this more as a bug; we shouldn't have @scale defined differently; we always tried to get them in sync, we should treat this as a bug fix.
- Dawn; ok


10. DITA 2.0 stage three proposals
        Vote
            None 
        Continuing discussion
            None 
        Initial discussion
            None 
        Feedback
            subjectrefs attribute
                https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202205/msg00007.html (Eberlein, 16 May 2022)
                https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202205/msg00010.html (Kimber, 22 May 2022)
                https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202205/msg00014.html (Eberlein, 23 May 2022)
                https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202205/msg00015.html (Kimber, 23 May 2022 -- forwarded to list by Eberlein) 
- Kris; as I was updating, I ran into glitches that called for additional changes to topicref, but not to map.  I don't know if setting @subjectrefs on map is something people would want to do, but all other @s that cascade have are available not just on topicref but on map as well, so I wondered. if we do agree to add it to map, I'll have to update stage 2 proposal and bring it back.
- Zoe; I'd have to dig into it to make a good response.
- Kris; ok, anyone else? any objection to our agreeing to having it on map as well as topicref and topicref specializations
- Eric; I have no objections
[Stan, Gershon also stated they had none]
- Kris; if we want to have it cascade, we need to have it on mapa as well, so I'll update stage 2 proposal on this as well. wrt other comments, shall we hold them till Eliot is present?
- Gershon; yes, he knows the most.
- Kris; any other opinions?
- Nancy; we should hold for Eliot
- Kris; original design of subjectScheme was not well-done, but we're stuck with it. We had wanted to redo SS for 1.3 but it was a pretty significant work item and no one stepped up.  Keys are used slightly differently in subjectScheme maps than in regular maps.  In the long run, we'll need to have discussion on what we do with subjectrefs; we don't have a lot of choices; we could remove class domain and not add subjectrefs, and add it in 2.1, but I don't know if we'll have a 2.1...  We will not be specifying processing expectations in 2.0, but putting them in a future releae... in any case, we'll hold for Eliot.


11. title attribute on reltable
        https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202205/msg00013.html (Kimber, 22 May 2022) 
- Kris; this doesn't require Eliot, but he's wondereing if we should purge it for 2.0.
- Gershon; would agree, but I hate all @s with content.
- Dawn; I agree wuth Gershon.
- Kris; I'd like to remove it as well. Any objections to removing this on reltable?
[none]
- Kris moved that it be removed, Gershon 2nded. 

Voting results:
yes votes		10 (Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Nancy Harrison, Scott Hudson, Gershon Joseph, Zoe Lawson, Keith Schengili-Roberts, Eric Sirois, Dawn Stevens, Frank Wegmann)
no votes		 0

***ActionItem: Robert should add this to github list of late corrections like this.


12. DITA 1.x to 2.0 migration work to be done
        https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202205/msg00011.html (Kimber, 22 May 2022)            https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202205/msg00020.html (Eberlein, 24 May 2022) 
- Kris; this came from an email from Eliot, so I can't go into it in detail. [see both emails]  We have topic about it in spec; sources for that topic are approved proposals plus github items on small items. We've committed to author a committee note. and to store learning&training, machinery task, for use with 2.0. Are there any items that I haven't mentioned?
- Zoe; not that I can remember.
- Kris; reading it over now, one thing we said we'd do are webinars about how 2.0 isn't backwards-compatible. and we did 2 webinars for vendors, but not for end-users.  Let's hold discussion till Eliot's present, and work can go in tandem.
- Zoe; it's at least a year since I first started to work on CN. and I've never done a customization or specialization, so I don't know where things shoud go.
Kris; I think we should have a complete list of what's changed; that needs to be in place before a CN can be auhthored or developing tooling. Let's hold till we have more folks on call, though I do ask for any additions.
- Frank; mention that wrt tooling, there is already some tooling, like the refactoring tooling that Oxygen has done; question ishow it fits into our work as TC
- Kris; good point, also there are questions of how high a priority is TC-provided tooling; we need to be conservative about our resources, though Eliot may be planning to build some. 


13. Scoped keys and relationship tables
        https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202205/msg00012.html (Kimber, 22 May 2022) 
[hold till eliot is present]


14. Volunteer tasks
        https://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/volunteerTasks 
- Kris; I've updated this to be more comprehensive; please check it out.


15. Continuing discussion of future of DITA TC
        Better marketing for DITA, something like https://asciidoc.org/ ?
        Can existing voting members of the TC dig deep and find an additional 1-2 hours per week to contribute?
        Can we recruit from existing OASIS member companies that have DITA implementations?
            (Info about OASIS companies) https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202109/msg00001.html (Eberlein, 02 September 2021) 
        Can we recruit from companies that are NOT current OASIS members?
            What companies have strong DITA implementations but are not OASIS members? 
        DITA Foundation, like that for Eclipse which sponsors ASCIIDOC?
        New ideas? 
- Kris; this will be key point of discussion at next meeting.
-go back to @scale topic


11:56 ET close 


        
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison

Document Name: DITA TC Meeting Minutes 24 May 2022

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Submitter: Ms. Nancy Harrison
Group: OASIS Darwin Information Typing Architecture (DITA) TC
Folder: Meeting Notes
Date submitted: 2022-05-26 15:36:35