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Subject: Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 26 September 2023 uploaded
- From: Nancy Harrison<nharrison@infobridge-solutions.com>
- To: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
- Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2023 23:40:17 +0000 (UTC)
Submitter's message
ACtionItams:
1. Eliot will provide code samples for what we think Dennis is asking; we'll want to use those exampesl to go into an example topic.
2. Kris will set up call with Leroy this week.
===============================================
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 26 September 2023
Recorded by Hancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://wiki.OASIS-open.org/dita/PreviousAgendas
Attendance:
===========
Robert Anderson, Kris Eberlein, Nancy Harrison, Scott Hudson, Eliot Kimber, Zoe Lawson, Christina Rothwell, Eric Sirois, Leroy Steinbacher, Dawn Stevens, Frank Wegmann, Bob Johnson
Business
========
1. Roll call
Regrets: none
2. Approve minutes from previous business meeting:
05 September 2023
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202309/msg00007.html (Harrison, 12 September 2023)
Kris moved, 2nd by Eliot, approved by TC
1. Roll call
Regrets: Stan Doherty
2. Approve minutes from previous business meeting:
19 September 2023
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202309/msg00016.html (Harrison, 26 September 2023)
3. Action items and volunteer tasks
08 November 2022:
Kris: Sketch out organization of "Changes from DITA 1.3 to DITA 2.0" topics for base spec
17 January 2023
Robert: Devise way to generate aggregated "Rendering expectations" topic"
- Robert; this item is a choice between stay with gross and icky coding, or clean up code and make the process more complicated;i.e., if you forget to get the process just right, output is bad. I may have a fix, but not sure yet...
- Kris; if we can't avoid gross and icky code, the preference is -still reliably good output processing
- Zoe; is coding commented?
- Robert; reason is that in html you're not getting a single document, so a mess to resolve
- Robert; looking at these and discussed with Kris
- Kris; some people grab out plugin as a basis for their own
24 January 2023
Robert: Work on mentions of error conditions in body text; aggregated error conditions in appendix
Kris: Update wording in spec about processing reltables
- Kris; will do it this week.
07 March 2023
Kris & Robert: Consider Eliot's latest e-mail about "Cascading attribute values" and consider where adjustments are need in regard to text and examples
- Kris; will discuss this week...
11 July 2023
Kris: Develop a DITA 2.0 backlog In progress
18 July 2023
Scott and Eliot: Start to update L&T files to work with 2.0 base. In progress
- Kris; any progress
- Scott; might have opportunity this week...
15 August 2023
Eliot: Review DITA 2.0 draft spec and determine whether it contains guidance for the things that Dennis Troaca queried about on DITA comment COMPLETED
Nancy: Update public page for the DITA TC to let people know where to find the most recent DITA 2.0 PDF
Kris: Respond to dita-comment post by Weiwu Zhang and direct them to dita-users COMPLETED
- Kris; will try for next week.
19 September 2023
Kris: Schedule calls with Christina and Dawn COMPLETED
Kris: Ping Chet and Scott McGrath about replacements for OASIS Wiki functionality COMPLETED
Kris: Complete additional test about link on base spec PDF cover; ping OASIS about permalink if needed
4. Announcements
Kris; Dawn or I should update dates for speaking at dita europe and links for submitting proposal.
- Bob; I'm working on a specialization to support parts catalogs, to support our clients.
- Kris; if gen'l interest, a demo of this could be part of a call; otherwise call Bob...
5. e-mails from dita-comment list
Key definition with key reference
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita-comment/202308/msg00003.html (Denis Troaca, 08 August 2023)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202308/msg00013.html (Bob Johnson, 09 August 2023)
New: Draft response to Denis Troaca
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202309/msg00012.html (Kimber, 19 September 2023)
- Eliot; the user is asking what happens if you have a keydef with a keyref to another definition (see mail) what is the effective result? The spec says in that case, rules of metadata cascade apply, where original ref'ing keyref is descendant of ref'd keydef; so keywords do not propeagate, and original keyref is unchanged. That's pretty clear from 2.0 spec. So my recommendation to TC is to say just that.
- Kris; folks often have trouble with this. Do we need to illustrate this with an example in spec?
- Eliot; I think it would be useful, it's not super subtle, but people do ask about it.
- Robert; but the comment describes more than one case as a single example.
- Kris; when TC originally discussed this, had trouble parsing his email and he was conflating two different cases.
- Robert; so I don't think I can answer this question without seeing markup.
- Eliot; I didn't realize he had 2 scenarios, I was focusing on the second. In the first, I think the answer is still the same, 'do keywords in general propagate?', and I don't think so.
- Robert; but I think that's not right. If we simply have a keydef, with a bunch of keys, and have a topicref that refs the keys, then those keys can never be used because they don't propagate, and that seems incorrect..., So I don't think the wording is right. I think what we wanted was that resullt if you have an empty keywords element,
- Kris; I think we need to ask you to do a second pass, Eliot, and deconstruct Dennis's example.
- Robert; I'm worried that we have the spec language wrong.
- Eliot; looking at table 'reconciling ...topicmeta elements and their propoerties; for keywords it says 'no'. In both of his cases, that applies.
- Robert; and that's what I think can't be right.
- Eliot; I think it needs to be a bit more nuanced; I'll write mail with what he's asking and markup an example to illustrate both scenarios.
- Robert; in the spec topic that defines this, proocessing keyrefs on topicref elements, refers to table. cascading between maps as opposed to within a map.
- Eliot; when one topicref has keyref to another, do topicref to topicref rules apply, or map rules?
- Kris; how do we express this verbally?
- Robert; I think in first pargraph, we're really talking about combining, not cascading; anything that doesnt cascade down hierarchy of a map can't be used, but once you've done that, use cascading normally.
- Bob; trying to describe situation was very challenging, so I think examples will be really important to being able to express this correctly.
- Robert; agree; it can't be expressed well without an example.
- Kris; very few points in normative parts of spec have samples, since samples are non-normative. but this might be one of those situations. once we see Eliot's response, we'll probably need one here, under examples of metadata cascading, even though this isn't cascading.
***ActionItem: Eliot will provide code samples for what we think he's asking; we'll want to use those exampesl to go into an example topic.
- Robert; and Bob's original response has a good example of one of his scenarios.
6. Review K: Bookmap structure elements
Review opens: 26 September - 9 October 2023
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202309/msg00015.html (Eberlein, 26 September 2023)
- Kris; this is open, will run thru Oct 9, will not be extended.
- Robert; for shortdesc, we have two types of shortdesc; natural language is awkward for these elemts so we're not using it for these
- Kris; once we finish this, all we have left for techcontent is glossentry items
7. Volunteer spec assignments
Assignments
(https://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/DITA-2.0-Backlog)
- Kris; I have a call w/Christina for this thursday
- Leroy; I've gotten thru about half the topics and internal guidelines, should be ready to commit to mid-next week; could I have a one on one to make sure I'm doing this right?
- Kris; We could do that, or you could just do a pull req and then Robert and I will look at them and provide feedback.
Shall we do a quick call?
- Leroy; yes.
***ActionItem: Kris will set up call with Leroy this week
- Kris; Eliot, glossgroup/glossentry?
- Eliot; no updates, but should be able to in coming weeks.
- Kris; if we could fold that into glossentry/abbrevforms, that would be useful; we'll touch back on timing of that.
11:48 ET close
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison
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