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Subject: Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 3 October 2023 uploaded
- From: Nancy Harrison<nharrison@infobridge-solutions.com>
- To: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
- Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 01:33:01 +0000 (UTC)
Submitter's message
ActionItems:
1. Eliot will devise more examples around cascading questions, and identify their titles
2. Robert and Kris will look at revisions to spec language and structure around cascading, following Eliot's work.
3. Kris will respond to Denis's email on dita-comment.
4. Kris will schedule call with Dawn.
===============================================
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 3 October 2023
Recorded by Hancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://wiki.OASIS-open.org/dita/PreviousAgendas
Attendance:
===========
Robert Anderson, Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Nancy Harrison, Eliot Kimber, Zoe Lawson, Christina Rothwell, Eric Sirois, Leroy Steinbacher, Dawn Stevens
Business
========
1. Roll call
Regrets: Scott Hudson, Frank Wegmann
2. Approve minutes from previous business meeting:
26 September 2023
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202310/msg00000.html (Harrison, 02 October 2023)
Kris moved, 2nd by Eliot, approved by TC
3. Action items and volunteer tasks
[updates only; see agenda for complete list]
11 July 2023
Kris: Develop a DITA 2.0 backlog In progress
18 July 2023
Scott and Eliot: Start to update L&T files to work with 2.0 base. In progress
26 October 2023
Kris: Set up call with Leroy COMPLETED
Eliot: Provide code samples for what we think Dennis is asking (see https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita-comment/202308/msg00003.html) COMPLETED
4. Announcements - none
- Robert; DITA Europe deadline was extended,
5. e-mails from dita-comment list
Key definition with key reference
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita-comment/202308/msg00003.html (Denis Troaca, 08 August 2023)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202308/msg00013.html (Bob Johnson, 09 August 2023)
Draft response to Denis Troaca
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202309/msg00012.html (Kimber, 19 September 2023)
New: What we think Denis was asking
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202309/msg00020.html (Kimber, 26 September 2023)
- Kris; Eliot, you were going to come up with more examples, so we could figure out what Denis was asking
- Eliot; As I wrote in mail, makes sense to me that would cascade from a referenced keydef to its referencing topicref (and, by implication, to the topic ultimately referenced), that is, the same result you would get if the referenced keydef was a normal-role topicref. It also makes sense to me that specifying in the referencing topicref would prevent cascading from the referenced keydef, as otherwise you?d have no way to override keywords otherwise cascaded from the referenced keydef (meaning that you would be unable to impose different keywords on the same topic used in different contexts in a map).
In Denis's mail, the topicref points to keyref def; and the keyword def has some value. First one has no keywords on it, second does have keywords. It doesn't matter whether it's a normal-role topicref that then refs a keydef, the real difference between is that one doesn't specify keywords, the other does specify. So, the effective keyword value following evaluation of keyword value in both cases hinges on whether your referencing topicref has metadata cascading TO IT. The spec doesn't make clear whether cascading rules that apply are within map rules or topicref rules. In the specific case of keywords element, you get a diff resulf if it's a topicref to topicref ref, or a topicref to topic; if topicref to topicref, it doesn't cascade, if topicref to topic, it does cascade. So what should it actually say? I think it should be topicref to topic rules apply; that gives you the same result as if topicref specified keywords values; if you get the topicref to topicref rules, they would never cascade.
- Robert; the email begins with a request for clarification.
- Eliot; I don't think we need any change to markup, just to spec language.
- Robert; But I think we also need an actual example that covers all cases.
- Eliot; I can do that. I also brought up what, if anything, are the combining rules for metadata elements as opposed to metadata @s. do we talk about that anywhere?
- Robert; we have info about that in topicref to topicref rules. but that info is separate from @s since they're so different.
- Kris; that's always been an ugly and difficult part of spec, when we talk about metadata elements.
- Robert; we do talk about cascading, for elements that cascade within a map, if its an element you can have multiples of, they're additive, otherwise they don't cascade.
- Eliot; so if we're talking about keywords?
- Robert; those don't cascade to child elements
- Eliot; but they do cascade from topicref to topicref?
- Robert; yes. your interpretation of what it should do, matches my gut feel; cascading of keywords happens when you don't already have a keyword there, not when you do.
- Eliot; so the real question is 'does the spec currently say that, and if not, how do we make it right?'
- Kris; under section on cascading, there's a lot about metadata @s, then just one topic about metadata elements.
- Eliot; so we need a parallel topic of metadata elements, to match the metadata @s table.
- Eliot; none of the examples illustrate cascading through succeeding keyrefs
- Kris; what should we do now?
- Eliot; we need a proposal for new language for caascading from keydef through, and we need more examples and to add another topic.
- Robert; we also need to put place holders for the examples.
***ActionItem: Eliot will devise more examples around cascading questions and identify their titles.
***ActionItem Robert and Kris will look at revisions to spec language and structure around cascading, following Eliot's work
***ActionItem: Kris will respond to Denis's mail.
- Kris; we can try to have more parallel structure, but I don't know how successful we'll be..
5. Review K: Bookmap structure elements
Review opens: 26 September - 9 October 2023
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202309/msg00015.html (Eberlein, 26 September 2023)
PDF of comments
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202310/msg00003.html (Eberlein, 02 October 2023)
- Kris; thanks Dawn for comments; this hasn't been done since original in 1.1. need more granular examples
- Dawn; where usage info is, it didn't just apply to that element, should also be in other elements. i.e. frontmatter/backmatter, wasn't clear when it should show up or not; lots of questions about usage.
- Kris; for newbies, this new topic structure for langref topics, implemented for 2.0, was implemented more thoroughly in base spec; this techcontent content is material where we haven't done as much work on this. The content needs to be edited to work out what goes in shortdesc.
- Robert; this hasn't been edited in a long time, so a lot of the work was about fitting it into new format.
- Kris; next pass will be to impose more thorough consistency. One thing we need to do is be careful about making references to just href when other refs will be available.
[discussion of PDF format and how it will never die...]
6. Volunteer spec assignments
Assignment
Status?
- Leroy; did a first pass on my topics, will make final changes and commit this week.
- Kris; Robert and I will respond. Christina might need to push yours out with lots of draft-comments in it.
- Christina, I'll work on it this week, try to push it out next week.
- Kris; Dawn, we need to meet, will you be traveling this month?
- Dawn; can meet friday.
***AI: Kris will schedule call with Dawn
- Kris; Eliot, what about gloss* stuff?
- Eliot; no chance yet, will try to start work on it.
- Kris; we would ideally review those at same time as rest of gloss* elements. you and Dawn and I can try to collaborate when we get closer to completion.
11:50 am ET close
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison
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