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Subject: Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 7 November 2023 uploaded
- From: Nancy Harrison<nharrison@infobridge-solutions.com>
- To: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
- Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 05:07:54 +0000 (UTC)
Submitter's message
ActionItems:
1. Kris will reach out to Amber to have her join next week's call to discuss glossary material.
===============================================
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 7 November 2023
Recorded by Hancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://wiki.OASIS-open.org/dita/PreviousAgendas
[meeting cancelled]
Attendance:
===========
Robert Anderson, Kris Eberlein, Nancy Harrison, Bob Johnson, Christina Rothwell, Eric Sirois, Leroy Steinbacher, Dawn Stevens, Frank Wegmann
Voting members:
Robert Anderson y y
Stan Doherty y reg
Kris Eberlein y y
Nancy Harrison y y
Scott Hudson y n
Bob Johnson y y
Eliot Kimber y reg
Zoe Lawson y reg
Christina Rothwell y y
Eric Sirois y y
Leroy Steinbacher Adobe y y
Dawn Stevens y y
Frank Wegmann y y
Keith Schengili-Roberts y n
Jim Tivy, y n
Bill Burns y n
Chris Trenkamp y n
Nathanial Mohammed, y n
Stacey Meggs, HP y n
Todd Thorner, SecurityCompass y n
Kendall Shaw Intel y n
Melanie Petersman, PC y n
Robert Anderson, Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Nancy Harrison, Scott Hudson, Bob Johnson, Eliot Kimber, Zoe Lawson, Christina Rothwell, Eric Sirois, Leroy Steinbacher, Dawn Stevens, Frank Wegmann,
Business
========
Regrets: Zoe Lawson, Stan Doherty, Eliot Kimber
1, Approve minutes from previous business meeting
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202311/msg00003.html (Lawson, 05 November 2023)
Kris moved, 2nd by Dawn, approved by TC
2. Glossary issues for discussion
Dawn Stevens (01 November 2023) https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202311/msg00001.html
Scott Hudson (01 November 2023) https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202311/msg00007.html
Amber Swope (06 November 2023) https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202311/msg00008.html
Kris Eberlein https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202311/msg00010.html (07 November 2023)
[Glossary whitepaper links)[ https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202311/msg00011.html ) (Eberlein, 07 November 2023)
- Dawn; getting glossary section ready for full review. but some things need to get discussed first. We're very inconsistent in current spec, wrt the use of the terms 'term/primary term/preferred term', but that doesn't make sense to me. OTOH, wrt 'alternate term', and for translation purposes, we might need all those terms to be there.
- Kris; and also, are we discussing this for a single sense of the term? There's a real tension between formal design and how most folks want to use it.
- Robert; not at all surprising that people use it differently. When it was put in, there was a lot of discussion, esp in the translation SC, that this wasn't for full terminology mgmt, just for publication, but it has a lot of metadata for doing all kinds of stuff.
- Kris; I don't know if translation discussions ever came back to TC as a whole.
- Robert; some of it did. but, like other 1.2 stuff, it was meant to serve many goals, and so doesn't serve any of them precisely.
- Kris; it's like many 1.2 things, e.g., the taxonomy (classification) and subjectscheme domains. We ended up slimming those down for 2.0. But I'm not sure where we are and what we can do wrt glosssentry.
- Dawn; my sense is that we've seen how people are using it and want to use it, so that should be a consideration in how it's implemented.
- Kris; who's using this specialization? I use it, and I know that Dawn and Amber use it.
- Robert; we use it at Oracle, but in a simple manner.
- Eric; we have a bunch of clients using it.
- Kris; any in conjunction with abbrevform?
- Eric; only one, I think
- Dawn; no, we share clients with you, and many use it that way.
- Leroy; what's the diff between glossterm and the gloss specialization?
- Kris; formally, it's a standard specialization, including the abbrevform element.
- Kris; the question is how to proceed; Dawn has to leave the call early; shall we continue conversation after Dawn leaves?
Dawn; I'll need more feedback, especially if we're going to make changes.
- Kris; and what about Amber's comments?
- Nancy; she seems to be focusing on context.
- Kris; what about glossgroup?
- Robert; that was the result of a revolt against having to put each glossentry in a separate topic.
- Kris; the real conflict between using it simply, and using it the way it was defined. with alternates and scopenotes, etc. it gets pretty murky wrt Dawn's question #2. So let's go through emails on this thread.
***ActionItem: Kris will reach out to Amber to have her join next week's call.
- Kris; wrt Dawn's question #3 - gloss part of speech - should this be modified to be text based content? If not, why is 'noun' the default?
- Robert; I don't remember any of this history on this, but I think it's an @ because it wasn't meant to be translated.
- Kris; but another point is that in a dictionary, many terms would have multiple parts of speech. And some clients want multiple definitions in a single file.
- Robert; for translation, I think we don't want it to be translatable, just like the element 'note' isn't translatable.. If we make people type in 'noun;' there will be lots of conflict,
- Frank; is it a fixed set of values for part of speech, or is it free form?
- Kris; I'm 99% certain that it's free form.
- Frank; different people may have different needs depending on the language.
- Robert; we recommend setting up a subjectscheme to set up the parts of speech you're going to use. Once you've done that, the part of speech value isn't intended to be translatable.
- Kris; what about Dawn's question #4 wrt the distinction between glossUsage and glossScopeNote? Will anyone take this up to see if they can come up with an answer to Dawn's questoin #4
- Frank; I'll do that, might be a bit blurry..
- Leroy; could glossScopeNote be more general? glossScopeNote is maybe only allowed in glossbody, but glossUsage is allowed in other places.
- Kris; that helps; glossScopeBody can only apply to a single sense of a term. whereas glossUsage might also apply to an alternate, but I don't really know...
- Frank; from my analysis, it's about usage; glossUsage is how to use the term, glossScopeNote is where to use it.
- Kris; what about #5 '5 ? why would you put an image in glossSymbol rather than just embedding it in the glossdef?' I don't have a good answer here; it might depend on how a given implementation is defining content for glossentry topic...
see Scott's response to #5.
- Bob; that seems like a good distintion, a symbol or image that shows what something looks like, not just a text description.
- Kris; I've also seen glosssymbol used where there's not an image that represents something, but an icon used as substitution for something
- Bob; for example, if you're in a regulatory environment, and want to explain the difference between a danger and a caution symbol...
- Kris; I was thinking of different symbols for different operating systems, and also used for flagging content. Amber also has another POV about glossSymbol. One other thing we can do is reach out on dita-users and ask if folks are using glossentry/glossgroup specialization.
- Bob; for my clients, I don't recommend getting rid of glossSymbol, the way Amber recommends.
- Kris; she may be thinking more narrowly, especially if she's working on scientific content.
- Bob; it could be, but we'd need a lot more clarification.
- Kris; I don't think we shold remove it.
[to be continued]
3. Announcements
- The Boston DITA User's Group ( https://bostondita.org/ )meeting is scheduled for 08 November 2023. Zoe Lawson will speak on 'Managing DITAval files':
o "There are many scenarios in the modern technical writing world where you need to maintain dozens if not hundreds of conditions to maintain different versions of content. DITA and DITAVALs make this possible, but maintaining those DITAVAL files by hand is untenable. Come learn about one method to do this using spreadsheets and a bit of XSLT."
- DITA Europe https://ditaeurope.infomanagementcenter.com/ is scheduled for February 2023. The call for speakers is closed.
- ConVex https://convex.infomanagementcenter.com/ is scheduled for 8-10 April 2024 in Minneapolis. The call for speakers> is expected to close on 15 December 2024.
- Adobe DITA World https://2024-adobe-dita-world.meetus.adobeevents.com/ is scheduled for May 2023. If you are interested in speaking, send an e-mail to techcomm@adobe.com.
4. Report back from LavaCon 2023
[not much to report]
5. Action items
[updates only; see agenda for complete list]
- Kris; please everyone look at glossary white paper and spec sections.
12 noon ET close
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison
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