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Subject: Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 5 December 2023 uploaded
- From: Nancy Harrison<nharrison@infobridge-solutions.com>
- To: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
- Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 04:08:13 +0000 (UTC)
Submitter's message
ActionItems:
1. Kris will reach out again to Amber to have her join next week's call to discuss glossary material.
===============================================
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 5 December 2023
Recorded by Hancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://wiki.OASIS-open.org/dita/PreviousAgendas
Attendance:
===========
Robert Anderson, Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Nancy Harrison, Bob Johnson, Eliot Kimber, Zoe Lawson, Christina Rothwell, Leroy Steinbacher, Dawn Stevens, Frank Wegmann
Business
========
Regrets: Scott Hudson
1. Approve minutes from previous business meeting
28 November 2023 (Harrison, 5 December 2023)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202312/msg00003.html
Kris moved, 2nd by Leroy, approved by TC
2. Announcements
Boston DITA Users Group: https://bostondita.org/ The next meeting is Wednesday, 13 December at noon ET. Val Swisher will be talking about DITA in Pharma.
ConVex https://convex.infomanagementcenter.com/ is scheduled for 8-10 April 2024 in Minneapolis. The call for speakers is expected to close on 15 December 2024.
Adobe DITA World https://2024-adobe-dita-world.meetus.adobeevents.com/ is scheduled for May 2023. If you are interested in speaking, send an e-mail to techcomm@adobe.com.
3. Referred question from bookmap review
Robert Anderson (28 November 2023) https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202311/msg00027.html
Scott Hudson (01 December 2023) https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202312/msg00001.html
- Robert; when designed all had @navtitle, none allowed topicmeta; question; why don't we have topicmeta, we got rid of ?? so why don't we have this? I think that's good add @topicmeta to these lists
- Kris; and Scott supported this, I'm in favor of this for those bookamap elements
- Leroy; I'm also in favor
- Christina; when we moved navtitle out, writeeers had some issues; we added navtitle as elllllllement, but this is helpful to help distinguish one topic from another in the TOC
- Kris; any concerns?
[none]
***AI: Robert will make these hchanges and document them in whatever github record we were using to track these kind of changes. Robert, do we need an new github item?
- Robert; yes, I'll make one
4. Glossary issues for discussion (continued from 07 November 2023)
Dawn Stevens (01 November 2023) https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202311/msg00001.html
Scott Hudson (01 November 2023) https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202311/msg00007.html
Amber Swope (06 November 2023) https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202311/msg00007.html
Kris Eberlein (07 November 2023) https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202311/msg00010.html
Bob Johnson (13 November 2023) https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202311/msg00013.html
Glossary whitepaper links (Eberlein, 07 November 2023) https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202311/msg00011.html
Action item for all voting members: Review glossary content in draft spec as well as white papers
New Summary of glossary questions
Kris Eberlein (04 December 2023) https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202312/msg00002.html
- Dawn; [reviewing summary] I still have issue with one term, but my clients are saying this is the one preferred term, mayebe we should just be more generic, not insisting on it being the preferred term.
- Kris; I'm not arguing for Kara's position, just mentioning it to explain why it's that way in the spec. for most part, isn't design of spec, preferred term is documented in glossterm, and othe synonym get doc'd in glossalt
- Dawn; glossalt is generally an xref to another term, and one of those has to not be the preferred term, so it's acting against itself. would be diff if you listed terms without linking to them. by linking, it makes all the terms
- Kris; was that xref intended to be internal to the glossentry topic, or to another glossentry topic
- Dawn; I interpreted it as being to another one.
- Bob; in desc, we say you can xref to another alternative term within same glossentry, so not just to another
- Dawn; is that to glossgroup?
- Kris; i do struggle with this content; it doesn't make sense, why is xref internal to a single glossentry topic? we've got the specztion, designed in a particular way; we all agree it's more complex than we would like it to be. and we have how folks are using it, which is to simplify it and use it differently. and we have to figure out what to put in the spec. how do we include content in spec that's content that's contrary to original design, but allows folks to do other things. maybe do a CN that gives a better idea of how to use it in a less formal way.
- Stan; larger companies do a glossary project and give preferred terms, and there's some resistance to having a preferred term. Your argument about a CN that gives other interpretations is good
- Zoe; seems like 2 extremes; simple and complex like IBM, where different groups have diff preferred terms
- Frank; wrt usage of larger glossaries. where you have lots of terminology. or is our specsation for which use case
- Dawn; have clients all over the place, but many are saying since I already have aglossary, might as well use this. for xlation, writers, etc. while yes, a lot of terms may be used internally, rather than published, they're using this to single-source, and using this reather than having a complex terminology-mgmt system. so, can we genericize this so a term doesn't have to be a 'preferred term' if we could get rid of preferred/primary, and just say alternates are alternates for the 'term' rather than 'primary/preferred term' my propsal is to just be more generic.
- Stan; agree, things can be alternate without being secondary
- Kris; only concern is, do we have to tweak wording for everything, not just in glossterm
- Dawn; yes, we would
- Kris; but in tweaking the wording thuouit, are we changing the meaning, so that some of the elements don't make any sense. If we can do that without that, great, otherwise I worry about it.
- Zoe; which elements
- Kris; all the elements that give info about non-preferred terms.
- Dawn; but a term can have alternates even if it's not a prefered term.
- Leroy; I'm in favor of it being general.; would affect a lot of topics, but it would avoid confusion. currently, word 'preferred' is confusing.
- Kris; trying to remember how much this is built on idea of preferred/non-preferred
- Dawn; wrt point 2 ('one definition or many in a single glossentry'), it's connected to #1; if it''s primary, only one definition, if not, not
- Kris; I've seen a lot of implementations; some clients have dictionary-like use; once yuo do that, lots of the lements no longer makes sense, since glossary was designed for one definition only. this is the kind of thing we can explain in white paper, but I'm not comfortable with giving examples of that approach in a CN
- Frank; glossary is a wide field; if we say; there are many use cases, some may use entire domain, others use only part; should we look for what use cases are typical, and what vocabulary is necesary? in spec, maybe we could focus on the default case, and indicate that it's default but not only
- Dawn; I don't think I have a client that uses everything in any domain, so usage of glossary doesn't seem any different
- Kris; but in spec, we document usage, processing and rendering of elements, and stay away fromn tutorial type info, save that for white papers/CNs. We ned to doc this spec in spec, It's too late to revise it now. could do that in 2.1
- Dawn; so can I edit it to be more generic, or will that ruin it. I don't want to make simple elements, we need to keep comprehensive ones. but vocabulary in descriptions doesn't negate, proposal; let me edit it to be more generic, then after review, we can address that.
- Kris; are you comfortable with keeping one definition only?
- Dawn; I don't think we want to say you can have one or more definitions, just talk about one definition, but make my description more generic.
- Dawn #3, should @value be [the element] value?
- Kris; Robert felt they should be @s
- Frank; even in non-English parts of speech, if you use a different word for the respective part of speech, it isn't useful. so you probably want to have only one language part of speech, so using s SS makes sense to me.
- Kris #4 is thorny. distintion between glossUsage and glossScopeNote
- Dawn; the comments from discussion are useful to me: 'how'? vs. 'where'?
- Dawn #5 img in glossSymbol rather than just embedding it in the glossdef?
- Kris; if simple glossary, just put it in text, if complex, might want glossSymbol
- Bob; it's really useful for medical device, might have diff symbols that show where you are in treatment or status of patient, and a symbol color is important, and being able to represent that in a
- Dawn; didn't wanted to get rid of it; just wanted the intended distinction.
- Kris; glosssymbol was for a more rigorous implementation of a glossary. dowes that work for you, Dawn?
- Dawn; amber's desc fo how her clients use it was helpful, more of a classification than an illustration; not an image that represents something, but an icon.
- Kris; people use it in all of those ways, I have 2 questions; first, Dawn, when could you be ready with another pass of this content?
- Dawn; maybe by 12/14
- Kris; so EOD 12/13, can get CF review up on 12/14. so,maybe not done by end of year... maybe a short review
***ActionItem: build a potential schedule based on Dawn done by end of day 12/13
- Kris; and let's talk about a CN around glossary. CNs are a lot of work; we have 2 already in progress (Migrating -> 2.0 and troubleshooting). Migrating should get worked on once 2.0 is pushed out to OAIS review. Old troubleshooting one will be 'off' at 2.0. Should we plan for a glossary CN.
- Frank; it would be a good idea.
- Kris; I'm loathe to say we'll do it without having someone committed to work on it.
- Dawn; it seems logical that I would work on it since I'm doing the rewrite now., so I'm half-heartedly volunteering
- Kris; who else is using it?
- Eliot; Scott is at ServiceNow
- Kris; I know Oracle uses it, though not in a very sophisticated way..
- Zoe; ditto
- Kris; anyone else want to?
- Leroy; I haven't used it much, only with functionality related to a CCMS (AEM).
- Kris; we have a lot of knowledge we could put in a white paper; some of the practical things that implementations have done, in terms of constraining or conditionally processing elements, so that a collection of glossentry elements can be used for both end of book, styling, and translation. But if you're using a spec, what will you conditionally process and how will your stylesheets handle things.. any comments?
[none]
12:00 noon ET close
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison
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