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Subject: Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 30 January 2024 uploaded
- From: Nancy Harrison<nharrison@infobridge-solutions.com>
- To: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
- Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2024 15:06:55 +0000 (UTC)
Submitter's message
ActionItems: none
===============================================
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 30 January 2024
Recorded by Hancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://github.com/oasis-tcs/dita/wiki/Previous-agendas
Attendance:
===========
Kris Eberlein, Nancy Harrison, Scott Hudson, Eliot Kimber, Zoe Lawson, Eric Sirois, Leroy Steinbacher, Dawn Stevens, Frank Wegmann
Business
========
Regrets: Robert Anderson, Bob Johnson, Stan Doherty, Christina Rothwell
1. Approve minutes from previous business meeting
09 January 2024 https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202401/msg00013.html (Harrison, 26 January 2024)
23 January 2024 https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202401/msg00014.html (Harrison, 26 January 2024)
Kris moved, 2nd Zoe, approved by TC
2. Announcements
- ConVex https://convex.infomanagementcenter.com is scheduled for 8-10 April 2024 in Minneapolis. The call for speakers is expected to close on ?
- Dawn; invites should have gone out, waiting for confirmations, and there's a slot for any TC members in attendance to talk about DITA 2.0. DITA Europe is fantastic, 164 people as of yesterday.
- Adobe DITA World https://2024-adobe-dita-world.meetus.adobeevents.com is scheduled for May 2023. If you are interested in speaking, send an e-mail to techcomm@adobe.com.
3. Action items
[updates only; see https://github.com/oasis-tcs/dita/wiki/Action-items for complete list]
16 January 2024
Robert: Merge pull request from Dawn (technical content repo) COMPLETED
Frank & Christina: Meet about GitHub repo wiki
[see agenda item #5 below]
Kris: Send e-mail about the (old) wiki pages that she and Robert used most frequently COMPLETED
18 July 2023
Scott and Eliot: Start to update L&T files to work with 2.0 base. IN PROGRESS
4. Review A, 2024: Glossentry and elements
Opening of review (Eberlein, 23 January 2024) https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202401/msg00009.html
Status of review (Eberlein, 30 January 2024 https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202401/msg00018.html
- Kris; thanks to those who did participate; Robert and I did a review, but not yet prepared to discuss them.. comments?
- Zoe; does abbreviatedForm work with acronym?
- Kris; yes, with acronym and glossabbreviation.
- Dawn; OOTB, someone could deal with the transform to make it work with any/all them; we might document DITA-OT to say that it maybe should/could work with those terms.
- Kris; we're not documenting the OT; we're not the group in charge of the OT. It doesn't work the way the spec suggests, and every implementation of DITA does a differemt thing with glossary entries and abbreviatedForm. There's a lot of documents around these specializations that do focus on abbreviatedForm, glossacronym, and surfaceform, as well as and around translation.
- Zoe; that confirms my sense; you can specialize anything you want; we had a topic with abbreviatedForm expectations, and we were trying to do something with it, but the spec only talks about the 3 items.
- Kris; those are the only items we had in 1.2 spec. I'm really bothered by including normative rendering expectations for them.
- Zoe; it makes me wonder if there needs to be some explanation that these are examples, but you can expand them; e.g. if there are all 3, the spec shouldn't mormalize a particular order of selection.
- Eliot; there are a lot of notes on localization concerns, seemed they shouldn't be there; either remove them or put them in white paper.
- Kris; I don't know how much of that was in 1.2 or 1.3, and what we've added for 2.0 draft. People get into a world of pain if they implement it without considering localization.
- Eliot; might make sense to have a separate topic about it, e.g., 'localizing your glossary'; but don't sprinkle it thruout the content. We don't do it with other @s e.g. index entries, and those also have localization issues; localizers understand those.
- Kris; yes, but not all companies do, or all DITA consultants.
- Eliot; in 1.3, there's a note under glossacronym and glossalt, which probably came straight out of 1.2; I'd argue for a single topic.
- Nancy; I'd strongly agree with that
- Leroy; is there localization info sprinkled thruout the spec, or in one location?
- Kris; it's in an appendix that's dedicatied to localization.
- Leroy; so it would be nice to have a ref from gloss to that appendix.
- Eliot; in 1.3 that appendix is B.6.
- Kris; I'd make the criticism that it's an overengineered specialization, trying to do too much in a complicated way.
- Zoe; one help would be making clear that a number of these are not meant to be rendered, which ones?
- Eliot; all the ones that are specializations of 'data'.
- Dawn; if a client is just tring to make an end of book glossary, we just use definition list and ignore glossary domain; we only use glossary domain items for really complicated localization cases.
- Kris; same for me; even if folks are using glossentry for glossary on steroids, Or I've created a stripped down version, where many of the elements aren't available at all; people use glossaries in 2 ways, simple or very complex.
- Eliot; we could break it into 2 layers of specialization, simple and complex. but we have no time/resources now.
- Dawn; right, separating simple and complex stuff out would be better.
- Kris; but that would be really hard to do for 2.0
- Zoe; would you need anything in glossbody?
- Eliot; no; you have a shortdesc.
- Zoe; would that be simple?
- Eliot; don't know; would have to look at it. and even if you don't care about most stuff, even for a 'simple' case, you'd want to be able to use firstuse and acronym forms plus refs from term elements to get rollover definitions. Certainly, those reqs hold for ServiceNow; we don't don't need lexigraphic stuff, but we need those.
- Kris; the minimum for 2.0 is the ability to disambiguate between these elements; what they are and what they're used for. We don't have consensus within TC about what these elements are. That's the base we have to meet; clearly identify these elements so we can tell the difference between them e.g. glossAlternateFrom and glossSynonym.
- Dawn; that's exactly the case; all those comments are things I struggled with. Do we want to ask folks what they're using now?.
- Kris; do we want to ask if folks want to stick with 1.3 version instead of going to 2.0 version? Maybe we need to divide elements in which ones are clear, and which ones are impossible/hard to disambiguate.
- Zoe; I'd support removing this, but I don't have skill to help do it, so feel bad saying it.
- Kris; can folks look at these elements and give feedback on what each means, or if you don't know what it means? and Dawn, you especially? I've done 4 gloss specializations for clients; for the most part, people just don't use the ill-defined parts.
5. Work on new wiki
Report back? https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202401/msg00019.html
- Frank; posted current state of discussion to wiki, what we discussed friday/ We looked at content level elements; what is currently structure for new wiki. We came up with 3 large blocks we could create;
1. TC meeting-related
2. spec work on TC level; reviews, work items, spec assignments
3. work done by editors - maybe 'editors corner' not so much relevant to regular TC members, just for editors
[see link above]
- Zoe; Kris when you saked for some comments, is that something we could do on a wiki page?
- Kris; I'd thought of email, but could use a wiki page.
- Zoe; what about a 'one-off' area?
- Kris; Frank, you created this from a list we gave you. we talked about post-2.0 TC work focusing more on CNs for awhile, so mayber we need to think about'where would we put CNs in here?
- Frank; likely under work items related to a particular spec.
- Kris; we used the old wiki for a bunch of one-off things, what about those? things we want to create, but don't want visible from front-page navigation.
- Zoe; I think a 'scratch-pad' area would be useful, where we can work instead of a million emails back and forth?
- Kris; what's awkward about current setup is that every page you create is visible from left-hand navigation.
- Frank; not thinking about implementation right now, just structure; if we want a private area, might need an area of its own. need to think about it.
- Kris; more on this next week, plus lots more on glossaries. please send your comments on both
- Zoe; will think about email vs wiki for discussions
12 noon ET close
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison
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