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Subject: Re: [ebxml-msg] some issues affecting header design
I meant RM-Reply as defined in the WS-Reliability 1.1 specification. On 20-Sep-04 16:25, Jacques Durand wrote: > Doug: > > Let me try to cut short on commenting on a previous unclear comment..: > I believe we'll need an ebMS message ID in addition to the RM ID, > even if an implementation could weasel its way out - which I am not even > sure yet. > > My turn to be puzzled by your fisrt paragraph below: > Because RM-Replies are only visible to RMPs and are correlated by these > to reqeust(s) based on RM IDs. > I guess by RM-Reply you mean [business] response that uses "response" > reply pattern? > So the use of RefToMessageId seems rather orthogonal to this - it would > allow for correlating in ebMS > where RM headers are no longer visible. > > Jacques > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Bunting [mailto:Doug.Bunting@sun.com] > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 2:32 PM > To: Jacques Durand > Cc: 'Jeff Turpin'; ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org > Subject: Re: [ebxml-msg] some issues affecting header design > > > Jacques, > > I am not sure I understand your last comments below. In WS-R, correlation > of the response using the "layer below" is unnecessary[1] in general. > While that may be the most obvious way to do some correlations, RM-Reply > information MUST be correlated with the original message using the > RefToMessageId mechanism because multiple RM-Replies may always be grouped > together. > > It is true, the business payload might be correlated using the underlying > protocol. This results in a bizarre architectural layering: SOAP > extensions supporting the "infrastructure and the underlying protocol > supporting the "application". It is also unspecified in the WS-Reliability > specification. Other mechanisms (such as identifying the relevant request > in the first RM-Reply) are possible through out-of-band agreement. > > In short, "supported by the layer below" does not immediately imply > "necessary". Could you please explain your thinking more completely? > > thanx, > doug > > [1] ... as in REQUIRED in the RFC 2119 sense > > On 20-Sep-04 11:58, Jacques Durand wrote: > > > 5. Message identity: > > do we need an identity in addition to RM identity. That is still > > unclear. > > Implementation aspects (which MSH+RMP architectures will/not handle > > a single indentity?) need be considered. > > > > [JWT] Although multiple identities(MessageIds) in the Message would > > seem redundant and confusing, it might be necessary to correlate > > messages within an MEP at the MSH level. However, you are correct, > > this is still unclear, and arguments can be made for and against > > this. We definitely need to discuss this further. > > [Jacques Durand] I see one case where the MSH needs to correlate > > Response wirth Request . In case this is implemented with SOAP > > request-response MEP, we can assume the correlation is supported by > > the layer below. But depending on what kind of duplicate scenarios > > we expect, and whether we still want this correlation even for > > asynchronous ebMS Request-response MEPs, we may need a distinct ebMS > > ID. It also depends on the role we expect from RefToMessageId. > > > > > > > > Jacques >
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