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Subject: [humanmarkup-comment] HN.requirements Chat Transcript
- From: Rex Brooks <rexb@starbourne.com>
- To: humanmarkup@lists.oasis-open.org, humanmarkup-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
- Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:23:57 -0800
Title: HN.requirements Chat
Transcript
Here is the chat transcript from last night's session discussion
of HM.requirements, as I indicated I would present it in the voting
message I posted previously. If you are persistent enough to read it,
you will see the numerous times Yahoo IM bounced people out of the
conference. We definitely need a better alternative, and I have found
one called Paltalk, but haven't tested it yet.
Ciao,
Rex
Yahoo! Messenger: You are now logged into
voice conference - rexbroo-727.
Yahoo! Messenger: rkthunga has joined the conference.
rexbroo: Hi Ranjeeth, how're ya doin'?
rkthunga: tired...as I'm sure you are this time of day ...but doing
well
rkthunga: how are you?
rexbroo: okay. no big complaints.
rexbroo: How did your day go?
rkthunga: ok I guess..I got a new Handspring pocket organizer and date
book, which I feel will be a good way to prepare for getting HM.org
established
rexbroo: For taking contact info on the fly?
rkthunga: yeah...i had a Palm before, but the software I was running
on it was fairly primitive. I took some time to survey different
alternatives this time around.
rkthunga: I think you would never buy a PDA, correct?
rexbroo: I don't know. Not if I can avoid it certainly, but I swore I
would never get an answering machine or a laptop.
rkthunga: (btw, you might want to invite Rob as
well...quantumevent1)
rexbroo: Did that.
rkthunga: is he here?
Yahoo! Messenger: quantumevent1 has joined the conference.
quantumevent1: I'm here
rkthunga: strange......i think yahoo had a hiccup or something
rexbroo: Oh, okay.
Yahoo! Messenger: quantumevent1 has declined to join and sent: Thanks,
but no thanks.
Yahoo! Messenger: quantumevent1 has left the conference.
rkthunga: another burp
Yahoo! Messenger: quantumevent1 has joined the conference.
quantumevent1: I'm back
rexbroo: There we go. Yeah Yahoo has been on the blink lately. I think
Mae West is the culprit.
rexbroo: That's the big switch in San Jose.
quantumevent1: Ah....
rexbroo: They are upgrading.
rexbroo: We might a
rexbroo: give it a few more minutes.
quantumevent1: ok
rexbroo: Kurt said he would probably be late, and i think Sylvia
wanted to attend, too, but she is in the boonies of New Mexico.
rexbroo: So she may not be able to a connection.
rkthunga: sounds good...i just got in myself, so we could say 10:15pm
perhaps?
rexbroo: Not that long, just another five minutes or so.
quantumevent1: what ever works for everyone, I'll be here
rexbroo: I had a chat with Kurt today, so I can catch you guys u on
that.
quantumevent1: shoot
rexbroo: I was trying to settle on a strategy to get a STTR award from
DoD.
rexbroo: The deadline is April 17.
rexbroo: And it turns out that we are smack in the middle of spring
break for the academics.
rexbroo: So I can't get hold of anyone at NPS or UPenn. But I thought
I would go ahead and select a topic area that would fit us, and found
one. I will send info about it to the .org tomorrow.
rexbroo: But anyway, the gist is that Humanmarkup.org would have to be
the Research Institution and Cagle Communications the Small Business
in rder for this to work out.
rexbroo: But, since we got our 501 (c) (3) for educational reasons, we
actually fit the bill.
quantumevent1: Cagle is the 503(c)?
rexbroo: The topic is too long to go into here.
quantumevent1: sorry 501(c)
rexbroo: No, Humanmarkup.org, Inc. is the 501 (c)(3)
Yahoo! Messenger: rkthunga has left the conference.
rexbroo: But for the STTR, Small Business Technology Transfer Program,
there has to be a small business and Resarch intstitution team, and
the small biz is th operational administrative end of it the team. I
would be consulting for Cagle writing it up and doing all that work,
but I will let my email tomorrow explain it.
rexbroo: We lost Ranjeeth, darn.
Yahoo! Messenger: rkthunga has joined the conference.
rexbroo: Welcome back.
rexbroo: Shall we get started, then?
quantumevent1: I'm ready
rexbroo: Me too.
rexbroo: Ranjeeth?
rkthunga: I'm ready! Go ahead and lead the discussion Rex.
rexbroo: Well, as far as I'm concerned the document is ready to go. I
just want to hear what anyone has to say.
rexbroo: That last batch of changes was all in the PROCESS
REQUIREMENTS section.
rexbroo: I checked with Karl and his reply was posted to the lists,
and I have talked to Sylvia about it, so she is up to speed, with some
trepidations, but no deal breakers.
quantumevent1: That was my impression as well from the feed back
rexbroo: I asked Kurt to double check that last little bit about
SHOULD NOT allow applications which nullify the specification.
rexbroo: But I haven't heard back from him yet.
rkthunga: (i'm re-reviewing it...a couple of mins)
rexbroo: Take your time, I aint goin nowhere.
rexbroo: But, I am having a tired attack all of a sudden.
rexbroo: brb
rkthunga: ok
rexbroo: I'm back with a dose of diet caffeine coke.
rkthunga: a couple of minor point...
rkthunga: points
rkthunga: I think the 'Terminology' section should have a more
consistent format.
rexbroo: I still haven't heard back from the guy from H-P to find out
if they are gonna have a phone line for me on April 17, for our
meeting, which is currently coinciding with the first day of the 2nd
f2f for WSIA, which is a drag.
rkthunga: There are three different formats used for the
definitions
rexbroo: Actually just two and a url reference.
rexbroo: But, besides aesthetics, what's the problem?
rexbroo: At this point, that's way too big a change for me.
rkthunga: We could probably define 'SCHEMA' and 'RDF SCHEMA'
explicitly
rexbroo: If that was going to be a point, it should have come up
before now. We shouldn't make any changes that are large like
that.
rexbroo: Ranjeeth?
rkthunga: sometimes we don't think of these things in the timeframe
they should fall in, but that's my opinion
rexbroo: At this point if it isn't a dealbreaker, I don't want to do
it.
rkthunga: they are already defined...just that we have them listed in
a 'note:', rather than as separate definitions. It doesn't seem like a
big change to me.
rexbroo: I would be happy to consider things like changing a word here
and there, but otherwise we can vote it down and start over.
rexbroo: It's like this: I can see giving everyone three days, Thurs,
Fri, Sat to read it and vote up or down, or say nothing and let it go
the way it is. But any reworking, like changing the format for a whole
critical section is too much.
rexbroo: When we set a process, we either stick with it, or we don't
have a process.
quantumevent1: I think I agree with Rex on this
rexbroo: The fact of the matter is that we will be reading these
documents and wanting to make changes or wishing we had said things a
little differently for months.
rexbroo: And, we can always decide to change em later.
quantumevent1: Very true
rkthunga: It's fine with me. I don't think any of the changes I have
are critical at this point.
rexbroo: I don't want to run over you Ranjeeth, but you should propose
something like a specific kind of reworking earlier in this kind of
process.
rexbroo: And, I think we should state that this subject to change, not
in the document, but I will say it in the post I make tomorrow asking
that everyone remember that this is just the first "working
draft" not a final document.
rkthunga: I understand...I'm just providing my insights as they come
to me right now...timing may be off, and I acknowledge that
rexbroo: In fact, we should probably say that from now until say, six
months from now is the period of RFC, you think?
rexbroo: Actually maybe 3 months is better. Six months will have
everyone putting it off indefinitely.
quantumevent1: You think it can be done in 3 months?
rexbroo: And we can say that a revision is necessary based on comments
and on what we learn from writing the base primary schema.
rkthunga: Six months would allow us the ability to leverage the .org's
501(c)3 status to help promote and seek contributions for this
effort.
rexbroo: I think it is necessary to start out that way, understanding
that it may be necessary to put it off until just before we think we
have a good working draft of the first schema.
rexbroo: or schemata if we can get more than the base done.
rkthunga: I don't mean financial in this sense, but technical and
conceptual contributions
rexbroo: Six months is okay then. But if we say that we should
probably make it a hard target date, not tentativem such as I would if
it were 3 months.
quantumevent1: I agree. 6mo should be the line.
rexbroo: Yeah, I know you're right. I just hate to cave in to summer
vacation schedules this early in spring.
rexbroo: But, okay six months it is.
quantumevent1: vacations? what are those.... Sounds good
rkthunga: supposedly they are a time of relaxation and peace...rumor
has it
rexbroo: Vacations are those things that other people do that piss me
off because I can't get anything done. When I take a vacation, I am
usually dragged kickin an screamin, for me a vacation is day hike.
quantumevent1: Perhaps we can place an internal target of 4-5mo on our
core efforts, not to exceed 6mo.
rexbroo: That sounds better to me, but i think we should just say six
months and really mean it.
rkthunga: and in our minds we can think 4.5 months
quantumevent1: Yes. Exactly
rexbroo: okay. I'll vote for that.
Yahoo! Messenger: rkthunga has left the conference.
quantumevent1: lost Ranjeeth again
rexbroo: And in the meantime, what did you guys thinka bout the
suggestion of combining HumanML_Write/Report with Conflict Resolution
and Diplomatic Negotiations?
Yahoo! Messenger: rkthunga has joined the conference.
rexbroo: And in the meantime, what did you guys thinka bout the
suggestion of combining HumanML_Write/Report with Conflict Resolution
and Diplomatic And in the meantime, what did you guys thinka bout the
suggestion of combining HumanML_Write/Report with Conflict Resolution
and Diplomatic Negotiations?
rexbroo: oops.
quantumevent1: This would give the Write/Report something to play
with... is that the thinking?
rkthunga: Unfortunately, that's not gonna happen with me.
rexbroo: I think I'll copy and paste copy and paste copy and...
rkthunga: Hopefully it'll be modular, but I simply won't be able to
integrate with Joe on this one...it's complex enough as it stands
rexbroo: okay. it was just a thought. The schemas for them looked like
they could be combined together.
rkthunga: Besides, he's gone and I don't know where
rexbroo: Well that explains why I haven't heard from him. I wrote to
him today and got nada.
rexbroo: I was hoping our small success would be stimulating to all of
us
quantumevent1: I'll take it.
rexbroo: Uh Ranjeeth, why don't you write down all of your thoughts
about the requirements document that you were thinking about, and
we'll collect them into the Request For Comments thread?
rkthunga: that sounds like a plan. I'll do that.
rkthunga: They can be saved for the new round.
quantumevent1: The new round starts after 31st?
rexbroo: Just because the thoughts don't happen on schedule doesn't
mean they aren't good or worthy of adoption, just not in time for the
extent of change.
rexbroo: Yes.
quantumevent1: Good
rkthunga: sounds like a plan. good.
rexbroo: Well, that's it for me. I'm no open to any sort of
silliness.
rexbroo: now open.
rexbroo: I could use some silliness, honestly.
rkthunga: one more thing...the OASIS TC site needs an update on the
'Announcements' Section
rexbroo: The world is too much with me today.
quantumevent1: Watch Monty Python's Parrot scketch... that'll do
it
rexbroo: You write, I'll post it, okay?
rkthunga: Sounds good....how about a dose of
rkthunga: before you
rkthunga: (and who thought emoticons weren't able to express all of
human emotion!!!)
rexbroo: Did you have any luck on the xml.gov and FreedomeBrigade
front, with Mr. Bridge?
rkthunga: FreedomBrigade's initial phone people turned me away,
although I got away with a free brochure
rkthunga: Rob, do you own a PDA?
quantumevent1: (2) Visor and Clie'
rkthunga: 3 PDA's?
quantumevent1: My wife has 6
rkthunga: 6???
quantumevent1: She sort of has c
rkthunga: doing research on HD Space, correct?
quantumevent1: yes
rexbroo: HyperDimensional?
quantumevent1: She collects them.... can't get rid of
them..
rkthunga: maybe you have some advice for me...I am looking for the
best application to manage humanmarkup contacts and fundraising
leads...do you have any recommendations?
quantumevent1: I used to use Contact! but now just the address books,
and Memo... no special apps
rexbroo: Does your PDA talk to your desktops?
rkthunga: of course!
quantumevent1: Both the Visor and Clie' have their own USB
connections
rexbroo: Then I would use what ever you use most on the desktop
boxes.
rkthunga: One thing missing is an XML editor for the Palm...there
exists none
rkthunga: anywhere
rexbroo: You know ZDNet AnchorDesk?
rexbroo: The daily columns this week have been on mobile computing.
Todays and yesterdays were pda stuff.
rkthunga: thanks for the lead Rex
rkthunga: anyway, don't want to keep you guys...Rob, you live in the
DC area, correct?
quantumevent1: North of Chicago ( 180 mi )
quantumevent1: Sometimes in Florida
rkthunga: ok, got my bearings crossed...
rexbroo: Ru guys okay with a Sunday evening chat for the .org? or is
it better in the am?
quantumevent1: Either should work...(as far as I know now)
rkthunga: Sunday 8am EST is the best for me...Rob, you never attended
the chat's for the .org, but you're very much welcome to join of
course.
rexbroo: Oops.
rkthunga: Actually, I would prefer to do our weekly informal TC chat
at the same time.
rkthunga: weekdays don't work that well.
rexbroo: I want to cover a lot of ground, and I just assumed Rob would
want to get involved, since the DARPA STTR is the main project I have
lined up, and then it is back to beating the bushes for
fundraising.
quantumevent1: If I can be of some help (re: .org)
rexbroo: I would rather not get the two tangled up together.
rkthunga: we'll keep them separate meetings, until the .org formally
becomes an OASIS sponsor
rexbroo: You can be of great help, perhaps not in the Phase I, STTR,
but there is a new SBIR round coming in May, and i want to tie all of
these together into a single project.
quantumevent1: Count me in then
quantumevent1: perfect
rkthunga: ok, are you guys up for starting at 7am? 7am we can have our
.org meeting, and 8am we can have our TC meeting? I KNOW that's early,
even for EST, but the earlier it is, the more consistently I can be
there.
quantumevent1: On Sunday. Correct?
rkthunga: yeah
quantumevent1: I'm be there
rexbroo: Its not very workable, but it is their topic, we can only
choose from among those available and this is the one with the word
"human" in it the most, and which is actually something we
can do, if a bit of stretch, but the fact that Ranjeeth just
mentioned, about not having a pda with xml editor is exactly what we
need to produce for a low bandwidth environment.
rexbroo: You're aware that that is 4 am for me?
rkthunga: Just how you like it
rkthunga: of course its early......if it's not workable, we can work
out something else
rexbroo: That was in winter. This is spring. My biological clock is
heading in the other direction, but I'll be there since you two are
probably the only ones that will be there. Kurt and Joe are not really
um...what's a pc term for reliable?
rexbroo: That's okay.
rexbroo: this time only. This is the big one.
rkthunga: If I'd be considered the reliable one, that's something new
Actually, I've been making slow and steady progress.
rexbroo: look for the material I need you guys to read tomorrow. It's
not that long, but we need as many eyes and minds on it now as we
can.
quantumevent1: Will do.
rexbroo: That's it for me then. Good luck on the PDA, and please let
us know if you need anything to make a bigger impression in DC next
month.
quantumevent1: Sounds good. G'night then.... back to work for
me...
rexbroo: You know that's all going to coincide with the WSIA meetings
in Palo Alto at Hewlett-Packard.
rkthunga: definitely I'll be in touch with you Rex...take care. Back
to work? no kiddin!
rexbroo: Gonna be hectic. So we need to prepare now. Bye.
rexbroo: Take care guys.
rkthunga: Ok Rob, Rex...good night.
quantumevent1: bye.
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