Draft minutes from ODF TC call on 2024-01-08

[Patrick Durusau <patrick@durusau.net>]

Greetings!

The minutes for the ODF TC teleconference on 2024-01-08 follow below.

Hope everyone is at the start of a great week!

Patrick

******************

Patrick: 1. Dial-In, Roll Call, Determination of Quorum and Voting Rights
Patrick: Yes, quorum see attendance record
Patrick: 2. Motion (simple majority): Approve minutes of 18 December 
2023 - https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office/202312/msg00037.html
Patrick: Approved by consent
Patrick: 3. Motion (simple majority): Approve the Agenda
Patrick: Svante move 13 to after 4, new number 5
Patrick: Agenda approved as re-ordered.
Patrick: 4. Editor's work review: Update on ODF 1.4 editing progress 
sheet (Presenter: Francis and/or Patrick)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J4TDjF7T62oN9Afhz1OTA6ePOFcCGlgjBF9L2xdF47o
and status our working draft to OASIS
Patrick: Francis - all the changes were for the last meeting - 
highlighted those still outstanding - no technical changes to part 2 , 
more work on github issue 37 and 49 need more work, and we need more 
eyes on the working draft
Francis Cave: 
https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/documents.php
Patrick: Francis - columns have been added to the spreadsheet for 2 
people for issues and schema changes
Svante Schubert: Patrick - reformatted the from letter to DINA4, the 
text is remaining the same
Svante Schubert: ^^page format
Svante Schubert: Francis: We should ask other TCs (and OASIS) what page 
format should be used for the future?
Svante Schubert: My suggestion, it would be helpful to reduce complexity 
for the editors (and stick to A4) ï
Svante Schubert: ^^we adjusted the margins and the page format to keep 
the text in place
Patrick: 5. Ideas to make our TC work more efficient? (Presenter: Svante)
Volunteers to prepare a proposal of an issue over weeks.
What more can we do?

Amended agendas: How does a reader know they have the *final* version 
for a meeting? Should we post, after the meeting, an agenda with 
amendments, etc. as the *final* agenda for that meeting?
Svante Schubert: I suggest to share more efforts on the TC members
Patrick: Svante - set up a shared Google doc, then copied for the final 
agenda for a meeting -
Patrick: Regina - need write access
Patrick: Svante - will create such a Google doc, invite everyone - and 
post before the meeting -
Svante Schubert: I also suggested to write the agenda write after the 
meeting notes on Monday after the meeting and update a web document 
(e.g. Google Docs).
Svante Schubert: This document must be either public or the updates have 
to be shared very time to the office TC list
Svante Schubert: ^very^every
Svante Schubert: I will try to create a document with writing acces to 
only the TC members, but public visible!
Svante Schubert: I will give an update next week!
Svante Schubert: As we have no notification mechanism of changes in this 
web document, we need a short notification on the public mailing list 
anyway!
Patrick: 6. 5. Volunteers for next/upcoming call (Presenter: Svante)
TC members choose an existing issue (e.g. from our working query below) 
that they will prepare for presentation/solution!
(alternatively they create a new ODF issue of an existing unspecified 
serialization feature of an ODF application).
Presenters might present on the next call or give weekly updates..
Patrick: sorry, I'll dial back in
Svante Schubert: I have an update here: 
https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-2093
Svante Schubert: an issue for the future that I will prepare to fill in 
some gaps (of our TC agenda)
Patrick: Svante, if you can take over for a minute, I'm having to reboot 
my phone, sorry
Svante Schubert: There is more info on the Wiki - once created by myself 
-> 
http://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/Change_Proposal_for_ODF_1.2_using_URL_fragment_identifiers_for_ODF_media_types
Svante Schubert: The ability of a mime type to jump within a page - like 
HTML does!
Patrick: Put Office-2093 on the agenda for next week
Patrick: 7. Future of "ODF Fix Version/s. (aka target)" - ODF Next & 
ODF-Later (Presenter: Svante)
Shall we drop ODF-Later in favor of the status of no label or DEFERRED?
Shall we drop ODF-Next in favor to a specific version number (even if 
we rename the label afterwards - we might want to test to change 
ODF-Next to ODF 1.6)
Last call discussions:
Regina Henschel: Fix version "ODF-Later" has currently no useful 
meaning. It is even used for issues with status "New".
We agree to not use "ODF-Later" any longer.
We agree to correct the FixVersion field, whenever we touch an issue 
again, that has an "ODF-Later" set, but do not make a bulk change.
Francis Cave: I propose to remove 'ODF-Later' from JIRA issues that are 
'CLOSED' or 'DEFERRED'.
Alfred: No version label until we have resolved it!
Patrick: Remove ODF-Later when we touch an issue
Patrick: Regina - when we reach a feature freeze - then define the next 
number for a version
Svante Schubert: Michael: Tested JIRA and it seems to edit the label 
easily as editable text field!
Svante Schubert: I am not sure where is the write place to document our 
new handling with these labels?
Francis Cave: write -> right
Svante Schubert: Where DEFERRED was being defined? And/or in our GitHub 
editors documentation!
Patrick: Resolved, then it gets a label. Open and no fix version. Get 
rid of odf-later, next, deferred. -> agreed
Patrick: Need to document, leave to the editors
Patrick: 8. OFFICE-4109: How shall we proceed with the existing issue 
for default values (Presenter: Svante)
https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-4109
https://issues.oasis-open.org/secure/attachment/11747/ODF%201.3%20optional%20attributes%20described%20in%20chapter%2019%20but%20with%20no%20default%20value.ods
Next steps, definition of done?
Svante Schubert: The ODS was created 26.10.2020, 18:22:18 by Francis Cave
Svante Schubert: thank you, Francis! ï
Patrick: Sorry, I've dropped, again!
Patrick: When do attributes have a default and when they don't - how to 
discover?
Patrick: Regina - some attributes exist or don't exist - must not have a 
default
Svante Schubert: I am looking/searching for a list of yes/no questions 
to ask, to clarify if the attribute can/should have a default value.
Patrick: Regina - existence of the attribute makes a difference.
Svante Schubert: I am missing meta types for attributes to answer these 
questions.
Svante Schubert: Default Lists for ODF 1.3 -> 
https://github.com/oasis-tcs/odf-tc/blob/master/docs/odf1.3/content.odf13-default-values.xml
Svante Schubert: Our trick is to use character styles on the default 
values and attributes and by this extract the values via XSLT to this 
file above!
Svante Schubert: What is so special of this attributes that they have a 
default value?
Svante Schubert: ^^I am doing this as a regression test, if something 
has changed! ï
Svante Schubert: The ODS is the list of all attributes in the RNG that 
are optional!
Svante Schubert: Francis: It is not a complete list.
Francis Cave: The optional attributes are documented in both chapter 19 
and chapter 20 and Part 3.
Patrick: Regina - chap 19 are true attributes, chap 20 are styles and 
may be part of a style hierarchy
Svante Schubert: Michael and I might try to extract all optional 
attributes using the Multi Schema Validator - 
https://github.com/xmlark/msv (within the next weeks)
Svante Schubert: Francis: Should be a full list of all chapter 19 
attributes, which are optional and don't have a default value!
Svante Schubert: Francis will provide a link to an updated/later version 
of the ODS in https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-4109
Francis Cave: This is a major issue, so we should not Open it until we 
have decided how to proceed with it.
Svante Schubert: beware the broken link: correct 
-https://libreofficemaster.blogspot.com/2022/03/libreoffice-dark-mode-on-windows.html
Patrick: Adjourned

--
Patrick Durusau
patrick@durusau.net
Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB)
Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300
Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps)

Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net
Homepage: http://www.durusau.net
Twitter: patrickDurusau

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