Re: [regrep] Describing ebXML Reg/Rep - observations from Santa Fe

[Matthew MacKenzie <matt@mac-kenzie.net>]

Max,

You make some great points, but I think that a lot of our problem is a  
general lack of people willing to roll up their sleeves and get all of  
the work done.  Compare this group's roll call to UDDI's, and remember  
that UDDI's scope is much more limited than ours.  UDDI has big  
marketing bucks behind it (read: MSFT & IBM), supplying a very good  
reason for people to step up and get it done.

What did we learn from Betamax and VHS?  Beta was better technically,  
but VHS machines are what you are replacing with DVD players today.  We  
need to spend some serious time on evangelizing regrep to the developer  
and vendor community, IMHO.

Matt

On Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003, at 18:47 America/Vancouver, Max Voskob  
wrote:

> Hello dear RegRep TC!
>
> Sorry for annoying you with my opinions, but here I just can't stay  
> silent
> :)
>
> First of all, I support Erik in his observations.
> Second, why do u want everyone to be smart? I don't want to be smart -  
> I
> want things around me to be smart, easy to operate and understand.  
> Confused
> where I'm coming from? Read this book
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465067107/ 
> qid=1043893177/sr=1
> -1/ref=sr_1_1/102-5762810-0332102?v=glance&s=books
>
> To be closer to the point, I have to say that if one wants his  
> creation to
> be used (adopted?) then one has to make it simple to use and  
> understand.
> About a year ago I had an assignment to choose a Registry/Repository  
> for one
> of our clients. That ultimately lead me to this TC. But think how an  
> average
> busy IT specialist makes his research! I see a name "XML Registry". Do  
> u
> expect me to go thru a 300 page manual to understand what it is and if  
> it
> can work with any other object types? The average fellow would hardly  
> move
> further than the executive summary.
>
> We had a very useful feedback from an outsider. Don't make him feel  
> ashamed
> that he didn't read the spec - he doesn't have to!
>
> If I can't set up time for my alarm clock it's not my fault. It is a
> designers fault. They didn't make it easy to operate. Same thing  
> applies
> here.
>
> If someone says that your creation is hard to use/understand then I'd  
> think
> twice and seek another opinion to make sure that that someone is an
> exception, not a rule, unless I don't care.
>
> Cheers,
> Max Voskob
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
> To: "Still Erik R" <erik.r.still@boeing.com>
> Cc: "OASIS regrep" <regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 2:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [regrep] Describing ebXML Reg/Rep - observations from  
> Santa Fe
>
>
>> Erik,
>>
>> Thank you for your feedback (you must be a colleague of Kathyrn's).
>> Some comments:
>>
>> #1 below:
>> <Excerpt>
>> It seemed helpful to clarify that an ebXML Registry does not  
>> necessarily
>> use XML in its implementation, and that its contents do not need to be
>> restricted to XML artifacts.
>> </Excerpt>
>>
>>> From the RIM spec:
>>
>> "The registry provides a stable store where information submitted by a
>> Submitting Organization is made persistent. Such information is used  
>> to
>> facilitate ebXML-based Business to Business (B2B) partnerships and
>> transactions. Submitted content may be XML schema and documents,  
>> process
>> descriptions, ebXML Core Components, context descriptions, UML models,
>> information about parties and even software components."
>>
>> This is made quite clear in the spec - are you suggesting then that we
>> emphasize it whenever we present the Registry specification in
>> presentations?  If this was not emphasized at the conference, I can
>> definitely understand as the *main focus* of the Registry architecture
>> is, after all, XML.
>>
>> #2 below:
>> <Excerpt>
>> 2.  Some people seemed to have the impression that the RIM was
>> essentially a software package that could be simply installed.  It  
>> seems
>> important to be clear that the RIM is a model and a standard - a level
>> of abstraction above any actual implementation of the standard.
>> </Excerpt>
>>
>> I don't doubt even for a picosecond your impression of the attendees'
>> reaction, but it does surprise me given that the "M" in "RIM" should
>> really speak for itself (i.e. it is a "M"odel).  Would you be willing  
>> to
>> elaborate as to why you feel that people had this very incorrect
>> impression?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Joe
>>
>> "Still, Erik R" wrote:
>>>
>>> Having attended the Open Metadata Registries conference in Santa Fe,  
>>> I
> have some observations regarding
>>> the presentation and description of ebXML Reg/Rep and RIM that might
> have some bearing on the understanding
>>> and acceptance of these standards and specifications among the  
>>> broader
> metadata community:
>>>
>>> 1.  For the people not familiar with an ebXML Registry, there seemed  
>>> to
> be some confusion about the relationship
>>> between XML and the Registry.  It seemed helpful to clarify that an
> ebXML Registry does not necessarily
>>> use XML in its implementation, and that its contents do not need to  
>>> be
> restricted to XML artifacts.  The ebXML
>>> label suggests things about the Registry that are not true, and may
> cause some people to dismiss an ebXML
>>> Registry because they are "interested in metadata, but not XML".  In
> presenting the ebXML Registry spec,
>>> it is important to explain what ebXML is, and it's relation to the  
>>> spec.
>>>
>>> 2.  Some people seemed to have the impression that the RIM was
> essentially a software package that
>>> could be simply installed.  It seems important to be clear that the  
>>> RIM
> is a model and a standard - a level of
>>> abstraction above any actual implementation of the standard.
>>>
>>> I expect that it is not necessary to reiterate such points within  
>>> this
> community.  But when presenting the
>>> ebXML Reg/Rep to others, making these issues clear up front will go a
> long way in reducing confusion and
>>> gaining understanding and acceptance.
>>>
>>>         - Erik
>>>
>>> Erik Still
>>> erik.r.still@boeing.com
>>> CENTRAL Registry
>>> Boeing Library Services
>>>
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