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Subject: Raw minutes for today.



Today's chat log.

Bryan Aupperle, Ph.D.
STSM, WebSphere Enterprise Platform Software Solution Architect
Master Inventor

Research Triangle Park,  NC
+1 919-254-7508 (T/L 444-7508)
Internet Address: aupperle@us.ibm.com
[10:19] Mark Combellack: - Roll Call

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/membership.php?wg_abbrev=sca-j

- Appointment of scribe. List attached below

- Agenda bashing

- Approval of minutes for 11th September 2009

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/34173/SCA%20Java%20Minutes%202009-09-11.doc





0. Administration 

- Issue Status: Open: 22

- SCA-J CAA and C&I Public Review ended on 7th August 2009

- Continued discussion on cancelling the Friday call





1. Review action items:



Action Items that I believe are done:

2009-09-11-01: Mark to add link from SCA-J website to SVN repository



Action Items that I believe are still to be done:

2008-11-11-22: Mark to draw up some wording for Direction 1 (as discussed at the November F2F) for JAVA-62

2008-11-11-23: Mark (and others prepared to help) to investigate the WorkManager JEE spec and determine its applicability to SCA for JAVA-62

2009-07-06-01: Dave B to raise to liaison (so that other C&Is can consider and possibly assembly) that non-XML based C&Is should state how the conversion of property values happens

2009-07-13-03: Anish to create a proposal for the list of annotations which make sense for JAVA-166

2009-07-17-01: Mike to create an example of the componentType introspection (JAVA-5

2009-07-27-02: Mike E to prepare set of slides for Issue 127

2009-09-11-02: Simon to write up proposal for JAVA-181 based on emerging consensus from meeting on 2009-09-11





2. New Issues (Excluding EJB/Spring new issues)



None





3. Open Issues (JAA and C&I)



a. JAVA-179: Need type support for @Property when used with SDO

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-179

Proposal in Jira as 2 word documents (Dave)

http://www.osoa.org/jira/secure/attachment/10541/sca-javacaa-1.1-spec-cd03%2Bissue179.doc

http://www.osoa.org/jira/secure/attachment/10540/sca-javaci-1.1-spec-cd01-rev1%2Bissue179.doc

Simon's JAXB annotation investigation: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200909/msg00024.html

Waiting for updated proposal (Dave)





4. Open Issues (Spring/EJB/JEE)



a. JAVA-103: @Remotable annotation incorrectly marked as optional in Java EE spec

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-103

Proposal in Jira (Mike)



b. JAVA-150: SCA Spring C & I specification need to mention how SCA runtime should load multiple application context files.

   JAVA-173: SCA Spring C & I specification should mention how implicit services should be determined for special bean definitions

   JAVA-175: SCA Spring C & I specification should use "id" of the bean to uniquely identify a bean instead of its name

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-150

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-173

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-175

Latest proposal containing updates for JAVA-150, JAVA-173 and JAVA-175 (Ram)

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/33936/sca-springci-1%5B1%5D.1-spec-WD04-Issue173-175-150.doc



c. JAVA-88: Java EE Spec: The @archive attribute of the implementation.jee element needs fixing

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-88

No proposal

Initial discussion after undefferring issue



d. JAVA-91: Java EE Spec: Need to define the derivation of the name of a component contributed to the Domain by an application.composite file

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-91

No proposal

Initial discussion after undefferring issue



e. JAVA-93: JEE Integration spec needs to define how effective CT is calculated

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-93

No proposal

Initial discussion after undefferring issue



f. JAVA-108: RFC2119 Language is needed for the SCA-JEE Specification

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-108

No proposal

Initial discussion after undefferring issue





4. Issues waiting for updated proposals (JAA and C&I)



a. JAVA-127: Long running request/response operations

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-127

Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200812/msg00089.html

Waiting for presentation slides (Mike)



b. JAVA-168: Conversion rules for property values are not specified

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-168

Proposed direction: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200907/msg00004.html

Waiting for full proposal (Simon)



c. JAVA-46: equals() method on ServiceReference and CallableReference

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-46

Waiting for updated proposal (Mark)



d. JAVA-54: Section 7.1 of the Java CAA Specification is unclear

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-154

Waiting for proposal (Mike)



e. JAVA-62: Clarify what a Component Implementation can do with threads

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-62

Waiting for proposal (Mark)



f. JAVA-155: Inconsistent normative statements in Chapter 10

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-155

Discuss - What do we do next?

Waiting for updated proposal (Simon)



g. JAVA-171: Duplicate normative statements in Java CI and Java CAA 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-171

Waiting for updated proposal (Dave)



h. JAVA-181: Catch 22 when trying to prevent property introspection

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-181

Proposal in Jira (Simon)

Latest discussions: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200908/msg00095.html

Waiting for updated proposal (Simon AI: 2009-09-11-02)





5. AOB



a. Straggler roll call





---------------------------------------------------------------

Rotating scribe list:



Anish Karmarkar Oracle Corporation (12)

Graham Charters IBM (5)

Mike Edwards IBM (13)

Ashok Malhotra Oracle Corporation (14)

Bryan Aupperle IBM (16)

Yang Lei IBM (11)

Plamen Pavlov SAP AG (3)

Martin Chapman Oracle Corporation (13)

Simon Nash Individual (11)
[10:31] Bryan Aupperle: Scribe: Bryan Aupperle
[10:31] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: Agenda Bashing
[10:31] Bryan Aupperle: No changes
[10:32] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: Approval of Minutes
[10:32] Bryan Aupperle: No comments/changes
[10:32] Bryan Aupperle: Resolution: Minutes approved
[10:32] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: Administration
[10:33] Bryan Aupperle: Discussion of future meeting schedule - Should we continue the Friday calls?
[10:33] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: Is there sufficient queued work to fill Friday?
[10:34] Bryan Aupperle: Mark reviews issue status
[10:35] Bryan Aupperle: Mark: for last couple of weeks the agenda has been merged and we have not really fallen behind.
[10:36] Bryan Aupperle: Simon: Given past couple of week, 90 min/week seems reasonable.
[10:37] Bryan Aupperle: Motion: Dave, second Simon: Cancel Friday calls from this point forward.
[10:37] Bryan Aupperle: Resolution: Motion passes w/o
[10:38] Bryan Aupperle: Topic Action Items:
[10:38] Bryan Aupperle: 2009-09-11-01 - Done
[10:38] Bryan Aupperle: Rest ongoing
[10:39] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: New Issues - None
[10:39] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: JAVA-179: Need type support for @Property when used with SDO

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-179
[10:40] Bryan Aupperle: Simon's JAXB annotation investigation: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200909/msg00024.html
[10:40] Bryan Aupperle: Simon reviews e-mail
[10:46] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: This seems very complicated.
[10:47] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: Why do we need to take the trip through JAX-B?
[10:48] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: Generating static classes when all that is desired is the use of the Dynamic SDO API seems odd.
[10:49] Bryan Aupperle: Simon: This support is already required for a runtime so why duplicate it and some static knowledge is necessary as well.
[10:52] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: Developer is making a data binding (JAX-B vs. SDO) early on and this influences code design.  Once the SDO decision is made, the developer is not going to be thinking about using JAX-B annotations.  There needs to be a way without using JAX-B.
[10:54] Bryan Aupperle: Simon: Should not extend overlap between @Property and JAX-B annotations.  Perhaps a new SCA annotation that is equivalent to the JAX-B type adapter annotation.
[10:55] anish: http://wiki.eclipse.org/EclipseLink/Examples/SDO/JAXB
[10:55] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: How would this impact interaction with JAX-B?
[10:56] Bryan Aupperle: Simon: Probably would need for the annotations to be mutually exclusive.
[10:57] Bryan Aupperle: Simon: This would be cleaner than extending @Property which might conflict with type adapter annotations.
[10:57] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: Are you thinking about something that includes hand written code?
[10:58] Bryan Aupperle: Simon: No, that is the major problem with using type adapters in this case.
[10:58] Bryan Aupperle: Discussion about details...
[11:02] anish: so this would be an optional annotation?
[11:04] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: Ponders if this would work with other object types (DOM, string holding XML data).
[11:04] Bryan Aupperle: Simon: New annotation should work for these as well.
[11:05] Bryan Aupperle: Simon: This is only problematic with primitive types.
[11:08] Martin C: im getting iiop deja vu
[11:10] Bryan Aupperle: Dave to update proposal (already current state).
[11:10] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: How did C/C++ handle this.
[11:11] Bryan Aupperle: Bryan: We added a type value to the @Property annotation.
[11:12] Bryan Aupperle: Simon: Dave were intending to solve broader conversion cases?
[11:13] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: No, just specific case.  There is already a open issue for more general type mapping to/from schema.
[11:16] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: JAVA-150, Java-173 and Java-175http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-150

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-173

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-175

Latest proposal containing updates for JAVA-150, JAVA-173 and JAVA-175 (Ram)

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/33936/sca-springci-1%5B1%5D.1-spec-WD04-Issue173-175-150.doc
[11:21] Bryan Aupperle: Ram reviews changes for 173.
[11:22] Bryan Aupperle: Anish: are the should and should not statements really MUST and MUST NOT statements?
[11:22] Bryan Aupperle: Ram: Yes.
[11:23] Bryan Aupperle: Anish: And what about the phrase "be considered", does this mean there are other factors?
[11:23] Bryan Aupperle: Ram: Not really?
[11:24] Bryan Aupperle: Anish: for the bulleted list is this an any true or all true list.
[11:24] Bryan Aupperle: Ram: Any true.
[11:26] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: Whole section is a MUST so do not use MUST with the bulleted list.
[11:27] Bryan Aupperle: Ram reviews changes for 175.
[11:30] Ramkumar R: got disconnected will connect again
[11:31] Bryan Aupperle: Anish: Editorial concern about scoping the various statements that start If there are no <sca:service/> ... and how to read this.
[11:34] Bryan Aupperle: Agreement that this is confusing.
[11:35] Bryan Aupperle: Ram reviews changes for 150 (Section 2.4)
[11:42] Bryan Aupperle: Anish: Last paragraph starts "When at least one <sca:service/> element" but later states "then only one service exists" this appears to be an error.  Probably need to say only identified beans are used for services.
[11:42] Bryan Aupperle: Ram:  That is correct.
[11:43] Bryan Aupperle: Ram to incorporate comments in updated proposals.
[11:44] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: JAVA-88 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-88
[11:44] Bryan Aupperle: Mike is not on call.
[11:45] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: JAVA-91 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-91
[11:45] Bryan Aupperle: Mike is not on call.
[11:46] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: JAVA-93 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-93
[11:46] Bryan Aupperle: Anish/Dave point out this is one of set raised for the various specs.
[11:47] Bryan Aupperle: Anish reviews specific concerns for JEE.
[11:49] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: I think we used the application context in the past for part of this.
[11:50] Bryan Aupperle: Same approach used for POJO, Spring, etc. should be used.
[11:51] Bryan Aupperle: Anish, JEE XML can be in multiple files.
[11:52] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: Rules will have to reflect multiple cases (modified/unmodified EAR files etc.).
[11:53] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: Does anyone think we need a .componentType side file (hopes not)?
[11:53] Bryan Aupperle: Anish: Would need solid justification for them.
[11:54] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: JAVA-108
[11:54] Bryan Aupperle: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-108
[11:55] Bryan Aupperle: Mark wonders if we can tackle this now or is too early.
[11:55] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: It can be done now.
[11:56] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: AOB:
[11:56] Bryan Aupperle: Straggler Role
[11:57] Bryan Aupperle: Next call is one week from today.
=

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