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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Amazon.com and Hurricane Katrina - Service Context?Service "Veneer"?
Katrina!! With a "K" guys. Peter F Brown wrote: > Excuse my stupidity but can someone on this thread explain why this > Amazon "offering" is simply *not* just a distinct service? I think we > are "over egging the pudding" as we used to say in the English > Midlands... > Peter > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Michael Stiefel [mailto:development@reliablesoftware.com] > *Sent:* 05 September 2005 17:11 > *To:* Ken Laskey; SOA-RM > *Subject:* Re: [soa-rm] Amazon.com and Hurricane Catrina - Service > Context? Service "Veneer"? > > I agree that for the RM that line does not exist. > > Michael > > At 10:11 AM 9/5/2005, Ken Laskey wrote: > >> Steve, >> >> I believe we are saying the same thing. If the service is specifying >> the item to be purchased by UPC, it is the same service in a >> different context. In this case, the donation would be added to the >> general catalog and the user interaction would be the same. I'd >> consider the "broader service" to be what I call the underlying >> capability, i.e. the money collection in return for something. The >> consumer sees the real world effect of that capability existing and >> there being a service to access it, but never sees the capability >> itself. >> >> However, note that with both Amazon and Apple there are new means to >> invoke the service (special links) and the service interacts with the >> consumer in ways different than the usual. For these reasons I'd say >> that for the new context Amazon and Apple created new services (where >> here I mean services in the SOA context) to repurpose existing >> capability (the provisioning of which may be called a service in the >> more general business context). I'm not sure what Amazon and Apple >> did made use of any SOA magic but it was nice reuse of capability. >> >> Does this bugger things up? I think it does only if we need to be >> definitive when you cross the line from reusing a service to having a >> new one. I'm not sure for the SOA-RM that we need to draw that line >> or even acknowledge that it may exist. >> >> Ken >> >> >> On Sep 5, 2005, at 4:37 AM, Jones, Steve G wrote: >> >>> Again not to raise old threads… but >>> >>> >>> This for me is the concept of context, the context has changed which >>> means the impact of the service is different, its implementation and >>> execution may however remain identical. So the “Collection” service >>> in this case always results in Money being taken and added to a >>> general leger with a UPC for the product code (for example). The >>> difference is that in the charity domain it results in the further >>> sending of that money onto the charity represented by the UPC, >>> whereas in the purchasing domain you get a song to download. The >>> actual collection service therefore remains unchanged but there is a >>> broader service (whose interface you don’t directly see but assume) >>> which controls the whole process. >>> >>> >>> And I can safely say that these things can be a bugger to model. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *From:* Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org] >>> *Sent:* 05 September 2005 01:29 >>> *To:* SOA-RM >>> *Subject:* Re: [soa-rm] Amazon.com and Hurricane Catrina - Service >>> Context? Service "Veneer"? >>> >>> >>> And the answer, as always, is it depends. In my example of buying by >>> UPC symbol, it is the same but possibly because the use of the UPC >>> symbol has been expanded. In the case of having a new service that, >>> let's say, automatically substitutes the charity item number for >>> your choice of a song item number and maybe gives specialized >>> feedback to the consumer saying thank you for responding to the >>> hurricane emergency, I'd say it is a different service. It is >>> derived from the original but I'd say it is different. >>> >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> >>> P.S. and with this busy hurricane season, we are up to Katrina. >>> >>> >>> P.P.S. Another interesting aspect is if you had a computer that >>> hadn't already accepted the iTunes terms and conditions, you were >>> first presented with their click-through agreement before you >>> contribute. So we also have an interesting reuse of policy and the >>> need to form a contract. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sep 4, 2005, at 7:14 PM, Chiusano Joseph wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> <Quote> >>> >>> Is there also a concept of a service having the same interface but >>> by operating in a different domain (e.g. charity) it acts different >>> for the same interface? >>> >>> </Quote> >>> >>> >>> Which raises another question we've been through before in the TC >>> (several months ago): Is it the same service in both cases? That is, >>> are the "normal" Amazon.com order placement service (with credit >>> card info on file, and selectable each time) and this new "hurricane >>> donation" service really the same service? >>> >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> P.S. Not trying to resurrect a permathread - just tying a recent >>> observation in with a past exchange, to see it in a new light. >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *From:* Jones, Steve G [mailto:steve.g.jones@capgemini.com] >>> *Sent:* Sun 9/4/2005 5:25 PM >>> *To:* Ken Laskey; Chiusano Joseph >>> *Cc:* SOA-RM >>> *Subject:* RE: [soa-rm] Amazon.com and Hurricane Catrina - Service >>> Context? Service "Veneer"? >>> >>> Is there also a concept of a service having the same interface but >>> by operating in a different domain (e.g. charity) it acts different >>> for the same interface? In effect its business contract is changed >>> by a business driver outside of its scope, while its functionality >>> (collecting money) remains the same its imperative is changed by the >>> wider business context in which it now sits. >>> >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *From:* Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org] >>> *Sent:* 04 September 2005 21:22 >>> *To:* Chiusano Joseph >>> *Cc:* SOA-RM >>> *Subject:* Re: [soa-rm] Amazon.com and Hurricane Catrina - Service >>> Context? Service "Veneer"? >>> >>> >>> Apple also did this with their iTunes Music Store: click the link >>> and you order a donation instead of a song. >>> >>> >>> This is why I keep insisting on differentiating between the service >>> and the capability. The underlying capability is to collect money >>> for a purpose. The service provides the interface for doing that. >>> Typically, you invoke the capability through a service that enables >>> you to buy a book (or a song) but a new service invokes that >>> capability (with a new user facing interface for Apple; I haven't >>> checked Amazon) to "buy" a donation. The power is the capability is >>> reusable by making it accessible through a different service. >>> >>> >>> Now note if I buy something through a service that allowed me to >>> specify the UPC code, I could buy a donation through their existing >>> service with that UPC, i.e. reusing the service for a purpose >>> similar to but different from its original purpose. In fact, several >>> supermarkets around here do support that because they have little >>> tear-off tablets at the checkout for certain hunger organizations >>> and you can hand the clerk a page for $1, $5, or $10. >>> >>> >>> Many interesting variations and our RM just has to capture the >>> concepts that can describe any of them. I think I'll mow the lawn >>> and think about this some more. >>> >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> >>> On Sep 4, 2005, at 4:06 PM, Chiusano Joseph wrote: >>> >>> >>> One thing that I discovered regarding the horrible catastrophe in >>> the Southern US is that Amazon.com enabled people to use its online >>> ordering service to make a donation. One could use the credit card >>> information that Amazon.com already had online to make a donation in >>> what it called "1-Click Donation" (or something similar). >>> >>> So instead of placing an order for a book, CD, etc., your "order" >>> was your donation, and you could view your "order" online, which (as >>> I recall) would show the amount that you donated. >>> >>> >>> Something that came to my mind is: What would this placing of a "new >>> face" on a existing service be called? Is it a different context for >>> the ordering service? (i.e. in the context of Hurrican Katrina) Is >>> it a "veneer" that was placed on top of the existing service? None >>> of the above? >>> >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> Joseph Chiusano >>> >>> Booz Allen Hamilton >>> >>> O: 703-902-6923 >>> >>> C: 202-251-0731 >>> >>> Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com <http://www.boozallen.com/> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> >>> Ken Laskey >>> >>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 >>> >>> 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 >>> >>> McLean VA 22102-7508 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This message contains information that may be privileged or >>> confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is >>> intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not >>> the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, >>> retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any >>> part thereof. If you receive this message in error, please notify >>> the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> >>> Ken Laskey >>> >>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 >>> >>> 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 >>> >>> McLean VA 22102-7508 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This message contains information that may be privileged or >>> confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is >>> intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not >>> the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, >>> retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any >>> part thereof. If you receive this message in error, please notify >>> the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message. >>> >> >> --- >> Ken Laskey >> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 >> 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 >> McLean VA 22102-7508 >> >>
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