[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]
Subject: Re: [ubl-dev] Basic Invoice Exploration
Interesting one about the meaning of 'net'. In the same context, in the UK at least it is generally accepted practice to call the pre-tax (pre-VAT) total 'nett' and the tax-inclusive, final total 'gross'. I don't know whether some confusion has resulted from that. I only have experience with paper invoices and XML ones (not EDI) and I hadn't come across the term 'line extension' before joining the UBL TC. To us UK paper invoice people there are two main totals on the invoice - nett total and gross total with amounts for total tax (split by tax type and, for VAT, tax rate) and total discount/charges before VAT and total for discount/charges after. The total of discounts and charges taken after the VAT calculation is usually a varying one, hence it does not get included in the VAT which must be fixed and cannot be changed without cancelling and reissuing the invoice - in UK that is where VAT is sometimes claimed back by the payer and therefore has to be the same when claimed back as it is when paid by the supplier. I don't quite remember all that well but I think the nett total is one which includes any pre-VAT discounts and charges so that it is easy to check the VAT calculation (and ask for a replacement invoice if it is incorrect - or a correctional credit note or whatever if the invoice was already paid). So I too would be interested to know whether line extension amount includes VAT, having always assumed that it didn't. What did the UBL invoice examples say? I wrote some of the examples for UBL 2 but the UBL 1 ones were already pretty much written before I came along. As were the terms like line extension amount. Best Steve Stephen D Green 2009/6/22 G. Ken Holman <gkholman@cranesoftwrights.com>: > Forgive me, Steve, for drawing this out but I've got my UBL Human Interface > Subcommittee (HISC) hat on today. > > Since April 2006 in the HISC we've been talking about documenting sample > calculation models for UBL: > > http://markmail.org/message/7yzrxwp7ttwleyn6 > > I'm finally talking with a chartered accountant in Canada regarding a > calculation model for invoices in Ontario Canada (our provincial > jurisdiction). It would be an HISC example of a model where VAT is not > included in prices. > > The Danish have documented a calculation model where VAT is included in > prices: > > http://www.oioubl.info/guidelines/en/OIOUBL_GUIDE_TOTALS.pdf > > I would like to transcribe the essentials of that into an HISC document of > an example model where VAT is included in prices. > > Your comments to jaymuz would be helpful to consider when writing this. > > Where I'll get the time I don't know, but for three years now we haven't had > any volunteers join up in HISC and write these up. > > At 2009-06-18 11:58 +0100, Stephen Green wrote: >> >> My knowledge is a bit rusty (I've been out of finance work >> for a year or so now) but I think the LineExtensionAmount >> is the amount without VAT. > > LineExtensionAmount is in the InvoiceLine ... so even if the sticker price > includes VAT, the InvoiceLine LineExtensionAmount is still the price without > VAT? > > LineExtensionAmount is also in the MonetaryTotal ... where it states it is > the total of line extension amounts net of tax. Being a programmer and not > a businessman, I looked up the term "net of tax" and found: > > http://www.answers.com/topic/net-of-tax > > Which implies to me that "net of tax" *includes* all tax. > > Taken together would imply a contradiction to me that LineExtensionAmount in > the InvoiceLine is without tax yet LineExtensionAmount in the MonetaryTotal > is with tax. > > Where is a layman like me getting confused? > >> The VAT is calculated (in my >> country at least - UK) on the total including allowances >> and charges (except those made dependant on payment >> terms like charges for late payment which do not affect >> the VAT calculation). > > Is the VAT then calculated on the individual invoice lines and the total > included in the monetary total? > >> Also in UK I think it is still true that >> the VAT cannot be altered once it is declared on an >> invoice so there are some things the LineExtensionAmount >> has to include and some things it doesn't. Anyway, AFAIK, >> it is the basis for VAT calculation so it doesn't itself >> include the VAT. > > Which LineExtensionAmount? Both? > >> All this is general accounting knowledge > > (by those who know accounting) > >> so doesn't get dicated by the language (UBL in this case) >> and does have to comply with whatever VAT rules apply >> to your invoice. I do accept that concepts like LineExtension >> have been floded into UBL and need a UBL explanation for >> what they entail - which I guess is at present just in the >> official UBL semantic definition (a bit sparce - could maybe >> be extended to include a general conceptual calculation >> model, albeit one which might have to be a default which >> gets overridden by local customs and rules). > > Hopefully with HISC publishing a couple of examples, then users in different > jurisdictions will identify what has to be identified where they are. > > Thanks, Steve, for all your input! > > . . . . . . . . . Ken > > -- > Crane Softwrights Ltd. http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/u/ > Training tools: Comprehensive interactive XSLT/XPath 1.0/2.0 video > Video lesson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrNjJCh7Ppg&fmt=18 > Video overview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTiodiij6gE&fmt=18 > G. Ken Holman mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com > Male Cancer Awareness Nov'07 http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/u/bc > Legal business disclaimers: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org > >
[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]