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Subject: Re: [ubl-dev] Test Assertions for UBL Calculation Model? Re: Re: [ubl-dev] Basic Invoice Exploration
Sorry to jump in gents but I was looking to build this myself however you gentleman know your way around these datasets better than I do and I am hoping you may already have same. Do we have a list of BBIE's that may play a role in calculating the balance of an amount in an invoice? I am talking all BBIE's that could form part of a calculation. This would include a price in a catelogue that may transfer to an order. This would not include the address of a supplier. A list that would be useful would be: UBL Name | Object Class | Property Term | Data Type | Definition If not I will try and build one myself. > Stephen Green <stephen.green@documentengineeringservices.com> wrote: > > I added to wiki what could be a possible start on which entities > need the calculation assertions > > http://wiki.oasis-open.org/ubl/Example_Calculation_Models?action=diff&rev > 2=21&rev1=20 > > I realise it's a little different to your proposed way forward Ken. > I'm more inclined to think the way to go is to set up a project > for assertions about the calculation model which feeds directly > into the UBL TC and its process for authoritative approval > rather than start with a more distant model like the OIO-UBL one > which might be seen as a customisation model rather than > official UBL TC one. This is taking into account advice I was > getting about the authoring of test assertions in support of a spec > from the Java spec/conformance guys from Sun and the JCP > in the OASIS Test Assertions Guidelines TC. I actually think the > lessons of software engineering are applicable to documents too > and that conformance and quality assurance for interoperability, > etc can be improved in document standards the same way they > can in software (and other engineering) standards like Java - by > the kinds of steps we outlined in the Test Assertions Guidelines > > http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tag/200906/msg00000.html > (now voted suitable for public review) > TestAssertionsGuidelines-draft-1-0-5.pdf > Latest draft link updated here > http://wiki.oasis-open.org/tag/TestAssertionGuidelines > > We are close to having a usable markup for this which for a > document standard like UBL could even be written so as to > be executable as a test suite for conformance and/or interoperability > > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/group_public/download.php/33024/TestAssert > ionMarkup-0-3.zip > > Maybe I could even get some funding from somewhere to help > as I think it could take a fair bit of time to produce the test > assertions > for a calculation model for UBL (maybe months) - and to pass > comments regarding ambiguities and gaps back to the UBL TC > along with seeking their approval of test assertions and supporting > comments. > > Best regards > > Steve > > Stephen D Green > Document Engineering Services Ltd > > 2009/6/23 Stephen Green <stephengreenubl@gmail.com>: > > Hi Ken > > > > Unfortunately I just checked the next one, TaxInclusiveAmount, > > and I think this one is wrong too - at least in the statement > > "The TaxInclusiveAmount represents the sum of the > > total tax amount and the related taxable amount > > of the document." > > It must also include any non-taxable amounts. There may logically > > be more to it than Sum(Taxable amounts) + Sum(Taxes) + > > Sum(Non-taxable amounts), e.g. Sum(Non-taxable amounts) is not > > clear on the invoice (may involve some circular logic) and I'm not > sure > > this is the best way to go about defining it. I think what you need > > is all the UBL definitions plus maybe some guarded, careful extra > > notes (careful about that) plus just in the main a set of assertions > > expressed in calculation form. Like it has now but with less words > > (to avoid risk of introducing extra, non-normative logic). Then these > > assertions should be first approved by UBL TC as conforming to > > the spec and as promoting conformance to the spec. Maybe the > > notes should be approved too. Hence best for all this to be done in > > UBL TC itself - e.g. on wiki then with TC approval/QA process. > > > > Maybe what is needed is a set of 'test assertions' as per TAG TC. > > This is what is going on with OIC TC to help sort out discrepancies > > over ODF spreadsheet formulas, etc. As in that case, the TC needs > > to approve the test assertions (or at least anything extra the TAs > > add to the normative statements of the specs/schemas). Else > > there will always be arguments over which assertions/calc model > > is correct and what authority a model has. > > > > Stephen D Green > > > > > > > > 2009/6/23 G. Ken Holman <gkholman@cranesoftwrights.com>: > >> I haven't yet transcribed the Danish OIO-UBL components into the > calculation > >> model page, but I have been told in private correspondence that: > >> > >> "I would like to point out that OIO has misunderstood the use of > >> TaxExclusiveAmount." > >> > >> That happens to be the item you cited in your post ... have you found > other > >> discrepancies? It is this known error that I refer to in > >> http://wiki.oasis-open.org/ubl/Example_Calculation_Models when I cite > the > >> OIOUBL PDF document. > >> > >> Please let me know if you can see other problems. > >> > >> BTW, I wasn't told what the misunderstanding is, so I look forward to > your > >> edits to the wiki in this regard once I've transcribed things. > >> > >> Was it perhaps improper to base the deltas of calculation models on > the > >> (corrected) OIO-UBL document? I chose that as a starting point as it > is the > >> only such document I know about. If there is a more appropriate one > then we > >> can use that as a basis for the example calculation models. > >> > >> Does anyone know which citation to use for the BII calculation model? > >> > >> . . . . . . . . . . Ken > >> > >> At 2009-06-23 17:06 +0100, Stephen Green wrote: > >>> > >>> OK, another risky subject. > >>> > >>> Looking at the Danish model there are some glaring discrepancies > with > >>> the normal interpretation of the UBL tax-related entities' semantics > (if > >>> I might try inventing a bit of diplomatic language). In this case > the > >>> matter > >>> of whose rules apply - senders' or receivers' or others' is > paramount. It > >>> seems if I send an OIO-UBL document I need a different computation > >>> system for a different calculation model than if I send what I would > >>> expect > >>> to call a UBL-conformant document. Then I risk that document being > >>> rejected because it is limited how much I can adapt the document > >>> calculation model to meet the receivers' expectations: my own rules > and > >>> the design of my finance system might mean I have to call > TaxExclusive > >>> amount just that and use it to contain the payable total of the > invoice > >>> minus the tax (and debatably minus any settlement > allowances/charges). > >>> The sender's and reciever's expectations and rules might be mutually > >>> incompatible. So whose apply? Good question. I guess the EU might > have > >>> to come up with some rules of their own or risk deadlock. > >>> > >>> Stephen D Green > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Crane Softwrights Ltd. http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/u/ > >> Training tools: Comprehensive interactive XSLT/XPath 1.0/2.0 video > >> Video lesson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrNjJCh7Ppg&fmt=18 > >> Video overview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTiodiij6gE&fmt=18 > >> G. Ken Holman mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com > >> Male Cancer Awareness Nov'07 http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/u/bc > >> Legal business disclaimers: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > Stephen D Green > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org
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