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There are two possible interpretations: (1) Although, there are two separate roles of RMS and RMD, it is the RMD who owns the WSDL and dictates all these parameters. This means the BRI, EB although are defined for RMS, are not really defined by RMS. RMS in essence has no control over these parameters. Note that this interpretation appears to contradict the Lines 112-113 and 117-119. (2) All the parameters appearing in a WSDL for RMD are applicable for the RMD only. However each parameter is scoped to request and/or response. For example, the BRI, EB and IT will apply when the RMD acts in a sender role (for a response message), and only the IT and AI apply in the RMD's receiver role (for a request message). RMS is free to use its own parameters. Note that this interpretation appears to conflict with the example provided in Section 2.3, lines 225-227 where RMS is mentioned, but it is not stated that the RMD will be in the role of sender when these parameters apply. It is not clear which of the above interpretations is correct. Further, different sections of the specification are in conflict with each other regardless of the interpretation assumed as illustrated above. Justification: It should be clear in the specification where the assertion parameters apply and how. Currently, there are two distinct and possible interpretations leading to confusion. Further, not making the clarification affects resolution of issues that pertain to attachment of policy in general since it is not obvious how the RM Assertion parameters apply with respect to the roles that are acknowledged in the specification. Target: policy Type: design Proposal: Clarify and explicitly state in the specification that each role manages its own parameters. Update the example to include in the WSDL only the parameters that are applicable to RMD: IT and AI. In addition, clarify whether the parameters that apply to RMS may be used within the content of RM Assertions and when. Detailed proposal: TBD. Related Issues: i021, i006 References: [1] <http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-rx/download.php/14793/wsrmp -1.1-spec-wd-01.pdf> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-rx/download.php/14793/wsrmp- 1.1-spec-wd-01.pdf ---------------------- Dr. Umit Yalcinalp Standards Architect NetWeaver Industry Standards SAP Labs, LLC umit.yalcinalp@sap.com Tel: (650) 320-3095 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5E0B8.5D41BA00 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3DUS-ASCII"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--> <title>NEW ISSUE: Target of RM Assertion parameters are confusing with = respect to how they are specified and attached</title> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"MS Mincho"; panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:"\@MS Mincho";} @font-face {font-family:CourierNewPS-BoldMT;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} /* List Definitions */ @list l0 {mso-list-id:1102842570; mso-list-type:hybrid; mso-list-template-ids:1846984562 -1080422012 67698691 67698693 = 67698689 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693;} @list l0:level1 {mso-level-start-at:2; mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:-; mso-level-tab-stop:.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; font-family:Arial; mso-fareast-font-family:"MS Mincho";} @list l0:level2 {mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level3 {mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level4 {mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level5 {mso-level-tab-stop:2.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level6 {mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level7 {mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level8 {mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level9 {mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} ol {margin-bottom:0in;} ul {margin-bottom:0in;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.25in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I would relate i054 and i021, meaning making sure that a solution to i054 also = serves i021.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.25in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p= ></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.25in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>It is clear to me that the confusion comes from a lack of support for "roles" in WS Policy. No waiting for this fix, we could split = the RMAssertion container element as we know it, into two assertions: RMSAssertion and RMDAssertion. Each one of these will be container for assertion items that concern respectively the behavior of the endpoint = in a Source role and in a Destination role, relative to a = sequence.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.25in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p= ></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.25in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The RM policy below would enforce interpretation (2) mentioned in i054: = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dred = face=3DCourierNewPS-BoldMT><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:CourierNewPS-BoldMT;color:red'><= ;wsp:Policy wsu:Id=3D"My-Destination-and-Source-Policy" = ><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dred face=3DCourierNewPS-BoldMT><span lang=3DFR = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: CourierNewPS-BoldMT;color:red'> <wsrmp:RMSAssertion</span></font= ><b><font size=3D1 face=3DCourierNewPS-BoldMT><span lang=3DFR = style=3D'font-size:9.0pt; font-family:CourierNewPS-BoldMT;font-weight:bold'> = </span></font></b><font size=3D2 color=3Dred face=3DCourierNewPS-BoldMT><span lang=3DFR = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:CourierNewPS-BoldMT;color:red'>> ... </ wsrmp:RMSAssertion><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dred face=3DCourierNewPS-BoldMT><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:CourierNewPS-BoldMT; color:red'><wsrmp:RMDAssertion > ... </ = wsrmp:RMDAssertion><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dred = face=3DCourierNewPS-BoldMT><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:CourierNewPS-BoldMT;color:red'><= ;/wsp:Policy ><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>= <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>There might be Source-related = items in RMDAssertion (making it similar to our current RMAssertion) and if so = they would only concern the clients for this endpoint (interpretation = (1) in i054).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>= <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So, if I want only a policy that = applies to an endpoint in RMD (message destination) role, I'd = have:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>= <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dred = face=3DCourierNewPS-BoldMT><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:CourierNewPS-BoldMT;color:red'><= ;wsp:Policy wsu:Id=3D"MyDestinationPolicy" = ><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dred face=3DCourierNewPS-BoldMT><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:CourierNewPS-BoldMT; color:red'><wsrmp:RMDAssertion > ... </ = wsrmp:RMDAssertion><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dred = face=3DCourierNewPS-BoldMT><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:CourierNewPS-BoldMT;color:red'><= ;/wsp:Policy ><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>= <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jacques.<o:p></o:p></span></font></= p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>= <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>= <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>= <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font = size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> = Yalcinalp, Umit [mailto:umit.yalcinalp@sap.com] <br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, October = 18, 2005 3:43 PM<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> = ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [ws-rx] NEW = ISSUE: Target of RM Assertion parameters are confusing with respect to how they are = specified and attached</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Title: Target of RM Assertion parameters are confusing with respect to how = they are specified and attached</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Description: </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Currently the WS-RM Policy Assertion describes four distinctive parameters in = Section 2.1 [1]: Base Retransmission Interval, Exponential Backoff, Inactivity = Timeout and Acknowledgement Interval. Further, these parameters are scoped with = respect to two distinct roles as summarized below:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>RMS: </span></font><br> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>-- Base Retransmission Interval (BRI)</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>-- Exponential Backoff (EB)</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>-- Inactivity Timeout (IT)</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>RMD: </span></font><br> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>-- Inactivity Timeout (IT)</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>-- Acknowledgement Interval (AI)</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Clearly there is a separation between which roles these assertions would apply = in the specification. However, the definition of the RM assertion = includes ALL of the parameters regardless of the role. This causes a problem = in interpreting what is being intended in Section 2.3 [1] which describes = attachment of the policy.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>From the perspective of WSDL, the service is always described from the = perspective of the provider and lists the requirements of the provider. Hence the = WS-Policy attachment of RM Assertion will appear to apply to RMD alone. If we = were to take this assumption into consideration, semantics of supplying all the 4 = parameters in a RM Assertion is not very clear.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>There are two possible interpretations: </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>(1) Although, there are two separate roles of RMS and RMD, it is the RMD = who owns the WSDL and dictates all these parameters. This means the BRI, EB = although are defined for RMS, are not really defined by RMS. RMS in essence has no = control over these parameters. Note that this interpretation appears to contradict the Lines 112-113 and 117-119.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>(2) All the parameters appearing in a WSDL for RMD are applicable for the = RMD only. However each parameter is scoped to request and/or response. For = example, the BRI, EB and IT will apply when the RMD acts in a sender role (for a = response message), and only the IT and AI apply in the RMD's receiver role (for = a request message). RMS is free to use its own parameters. Note that this interpretation appears to conflict with the example provided in Section = 2.3, lines 225-227 where RMS is mentioned, but it is not stated that = the RMD will be in the role of sender when these parameters apply. = </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>It is not clear which of the above interpretations is correct. Further, = different sections of the specification are in conflict with each other = regardless of the interpretation assumed as illustrated = above.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Justification: </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>It should be clear in the specification where the assertion parameters = apply and how. Currently, there are two distinct and possible interpretations = leading to confusion. Further, not making the clarification affects resolution of = issues that pertain to attachment of policy in general since it is not obvious = how the RM Assertion parameters apply with respect to the roles that are = acknowledged in the specification. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Target: policy</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Type: design</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Proposal: </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Clarify and explicitly state in the specification that each role manages its = own parameters. Update the example to include in the WSDL only the = parameters that are applicable to RMD: IT and AI. In addition, clarify whether the = parameters that apply to RMS may be used within the content of RM Assertions and = when.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Detailed proposal: TBD. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Related Issues: i021, i006</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>References: </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>[1] </span></font><a href=3D"http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-rx/download.php/= 14793/wsrmp-1.1-spec-wd-01.pdf"><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>http://www.oasis-open.org/a= pps/org/workgroup/ws-rx/download.php/14793/wsrmp-1.1-spec-wd-01.pdf</spa= n></font></a> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o= :p></span></font></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>----------------------</spa= n></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Dr. Umit Yalcinalp</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Standards Architect</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>NetWeaver Industry Standards</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>SAP Labs, LLC</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>umit.yalcinalp@sap.com</spa= n></font> <br> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Tel: (650) 320-3095 </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </body> </html> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5E0B8.5D41BA00--
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