Re: [wsrm] clarification on Respond primitive

[Sunil Kunisetty <sunil.kunisetty@oracle.com>]

Tom Rutt wrote:

> The reason to send both is that one is targeted to the sending RMP the 
> other is targeted to the consumer.
>
> It does not hurt to send both in this case.

  I think it hurts. I'm a big proponent of not sending information when 
not needed,. I believe in
  not sending unnecessary and duplicate information as it will cause 
confusion, mutual conflict,
  unnecessary bandwidth etc.

  Specifically the problems I see in this case are:
  i) The duplicate message may either be triggered by the RMP itself  or 
accidentally by the
      application itself. Most likely by the former because of 
Guaranteed Delivery. In that case,
      RMP itself is the consumer, so sending separate faults doesn't 
make much sense.
 ii) Just saying "send a SOAP Fault" is very  bad for a spec. as it is 
not interoperable.
     We need to be very specific about the Fault information  to be 
sent. Is it Client/Sender or
      Server/Receiver or what sub-code etc.?
  iii) In most cases, the Sending RMP will formulate a Fault/Exception 
to the Consumer if
       required based on the RM fault itself. A combination of RM Fault 
and SOAP Fault
       could be problematic in such cases as they could conflict.

>
> Tom Rutt
>
> Sunil Kunisetty wrote:
>
>> Tom Rutt wrote:
>>
>>> whenever the request causes any rm-fault, it cannot be delivered to 
>>> the consumer.  All RM faults
>>> have this property that for response reply pattern no response 
>>> payload is avialable, unless
>>> the sending RMP caches prior responses.
>>
>>
>>
>>  In this case, we will be semding a SOAP Envelope with one Header 
>> (that has the RM Fault) and
>>  with no SOAP Body.
>>
>> The specific qn. I've is in what cases, we need to send BOTH SOAP 
>> Fault and a RM Fault?
>>
>> I can't think of any.
>>
>>> Tom Rutt
>>>
>>>
>>> Sunil Kunisetty wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tom Rutt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This section is about rm faults.
>>>>>
>>>>   Ok. if it is not about DE and generic Faults,  what is the chance 
>>>> that BOTH RM Fault and SOAP Fault
>>>>   need to be sent. I can't think of any cases myself.
>>>>
>>>>   Even if there are few chances, since it is not for all cases, we 
>>>> have to say "*the underlying protocol
>>>>   response MUST contain a SOAP Fault (in the SOAP Body)_ if exists 
>>>> one _ in addition to the
>>>>   appropriate RM Fault (in the SOAP Header).".
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>> The clarification about duplicate elilmination needs to go in 
>>>>> section 4, where duplicate elimination
>>>>> element is defined.
>>>>>
>>>>> There we have three options, which are up for debate:
>>>>> 1) allow the receiving rmp to cache the earlier response and send 
>>>>> it with the ack for the duplicate incoke
>>>>> 2) allow the receiving rmo to send nothing in the soap body.  
>>>>> Since the sending RMP was responsible for the second invoke, it 
>>>>> can filter out the second ack with the empty body.  It will not 
>>>>> deliver it to the sender.  There is a small case where the 
>>>>> original response is lost, in which case the sender does not get 
>>>>> the response. This would be
>>>>> the case with sending a soap fault as well.
>>>>> 3) send a soap fault with tha duplicat ack.  This bothers some, 
>>>>> since it is not a fault condition, and the
>>>>> sending rmp can filter out the second ack and not deliver it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Rutt
>>>>>
>>>>> Sunil Kunisetty wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>