Minutes of BTP conference call, 8 November 2001 Noon Eastern Standard Time Attendees: - James Tauber, Bowstreet - Geoff Brown, Oracle - Alex Ceponkus, individual - Alex Berson, Entrust - Mark Little, HP - Alastair Green, Choreology - Peter Furniss, Choreology - Jim Webber, HP - Steve White, SeeBeyond - Bill Pope, individual - Sazi Temel, BEA - Pyounguk Cho, Iona - Gordon Hamilton, Applied Theory ========= non-voting ============ Tony Fletcher, Choreology (prospective member) Bill Cox, BEA (prospective member) Victor Corrales, HP (observer) Doug Bunting, Sun (prospective member) 1. Prior meeting minutes (1 November 2001) were approved. 2. Motions A. Reconsideration of Motion to close technical issues list on 15 November 2001 (approved at 1 November 2001 Meeting). Discussion: Alastair said that we cannot make the 15 November deadline. There are 58 issues, ranging from "change a word" to "rewrite the whole thing." We also need to get all the new people through the issues. He and Peter have bundled each person's editorial issues into a single one. Editorial issues are at the OASIS BTP web site. Geoff Brown said that there are a large number of issues, and more coming. One common point is that there needs to be much more work done to have a standard that is palatable for the higher level vendors and that works with other standards. He proposed a Face-to-Face meeting in mid-December (see next motion). Discussion on that motion was interleaved; these minutes will separate insofar as possible. Bill Cox suggested a complete pass to edit for readability and restructuring so problems not currently visible could be seen. Alastair said that we have a usable draft but it's far from a usable specification. Presentation has been a secondary concern. We should work through the issues list in tranches – every two weeks do another group. He strongly disagrees that a readability editing pass is needed; Bill Cox agreed that the readability and issue processing could proceed in parallel. [tranch means "in groups sharing some common characteristics." Editor] Peter Furniss said that, based on his experience, the minimum that a standard must do is document the agreements reached in the standards meeting. Second level is to define precisely what to implement. Third level should explain what's going on. Alastair or Peter said that We've targeted the second level. Alastair added that level three should be addressed by a primer. The spec is not intended to "persuade the industry." The current draft, however, is not easy to understand. We need to move to closure, not 15 December; he would be happy with 15 March. Bill Pope said that the nub of this is clarity and how we accomplish that. The separation of primer from core allowed for separation in time, so we could do a core spec followed by information material. A further discussion followed on primer/introductory/explanatory material and how to make understanding/acceptance easier. Alastair volunteered to produce a synthesis of papers and slides he has prepared and submitted to OASIS for use in BTP. ACTION (Alastair Green): Create and send a draft of introductory/explanatory material and send to Bill Cox (William.Cox@bea.com) for initial comments. Peter Furniss said that he visualized publishing intermediate drafts with editorial and clarification changes. Bill Pope reminded us that people thinking that the list would close 15 November caused more directed work than heretofor. The motion as voted was "Establish the deadline for technical issues submission of 30 November 2001." MOTION CARRIED by unanimous consent. B. Plan a Face-to-Face meeting in mid-December. Discussion: Geoff Brown suggested this meeting to allow whiteboarding sessions on the major issues and resolution/rating of the issues on the list. Mark Little raised concerns whether the time between 30 November and 15 December would be adequate to get the issues to a manageable level. Peter Furniss hoped that the F2F would deal with issues that are complex and bear on each other (and are hard to resolve by email or telephone). He added that this moves the aftermath into January, with another major draft that might be approved with only a few editorial typos remaining. A brief discussion on phone access lead to the conclusion that phone access through the entire F2F didn't work well and mitigated the benefits of a F2F. Bill Pope said that we'd have a readout teleconference from the meeting, and send out meeting minutes and/or progress reports. Geoff suggested a full walkthrough on a whiteboard so we can understand and agree on the flows. This is to get everyone on the same page, which is not true today. It's important to get solid consensus so we're ready for the next stage— everyone should understand completely at the end. He reminded us of problems with JMS caused by different companies thinking they knew the spec, but implementing it differently. There's a similar danger for BTP. We should go through a process flow so we all see what's needed for a real product. Bill Pope suggested we plan on two days, and outside the F2F do an electronic shared whiteboard to get everyone up to speed. We'll need two days for the issues over and above the walkthroughs. ACTION (Mark Little, Sazi Temel): Discuss presentation mechanisms, select a presentation technology and date. ACTION (Alastair, Mark Little, Peter Furniss): Decide which of them will do the walkthrough. Bill Cox offered an East Coast USA location (BEA, Liberty Corner NJ, 20 miles west of New York City). ACTION (All): Send email to Bill Pope with availability dates for a Face-to-Face meeting in New Jersey mid-December. MOTION CARRIED by unanimous consent. 3. Summary of Action Items ACTION (Alastair Green): Create and send a draft of introductory/explanatory material and send to Bill Cox (William.Cox@bea.com) for initial comments. ACTION (Mark Little, Sazi Temel): Discuss presentation mechanisms, select a presentation technology and date. ACTION (Alastair, Mark Little, Peter Furniss): Decide which of them will do the walkthrough. ACTION (All): Send email to Bill Pope with availability dates for a Face-to-Face meeting in New Jersey mid-December. 4. Meeting Adjourned 1:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time