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Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] Episodical memory requirement
Kenji, Good point! ; -) The real answer I believe is somewhere we tried to get to with the original ebXML work - and is now enshrined in the Registry SCM - Use Case #2 requirement. http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/5579/ebDictionary.html If we implement this - I believe we will finally be able to raise the flag to the mast and sail in this ship. The keel is laid and I see much of the superstructure, and the masts. Final fitting an kitting-out is in-progress! Cheers, DW. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenji Nagahashi" <nagahashi@fla.fujitsu.com> Cc: "ebxml bp tc" <ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] Episodical memory requirement > Hi, > > Did SME successfully implemented EDI? There would be much BPSS could do. > > There are relationships that cannot be easily tracked by just reference > # in the envelope. > When you look into the business message, you will find many identifiers > which references other business document, or I'd call it, process > instance. I believe they are business level relationships and important > part of BP description. > Also relationship between order and invoice is not usually specified by > reference # in the envelope. It is in the message. > > Just think of purchase order management process consisting of create, > change, update notify, cancel. It is non-trivial to implement management > process using reference # in the envelope. Do you expect SME to > implement that in full, or BPSS to help automate the implementation? > Conversation-Id in ebMS header also won't work much, because it is only > valid between two parties. If we try to extend business process > description into multi-party collaboration, we certainly need a way to > describe what is the key to identify multi-party collaboration instance. > > Kenji > > David RR Webber wrote: > > Anders, > > > > I find all these questions somewhat strange. EDI a millenium ago already > > solved these. On the ebMS front - as with EDI - there is a reference # > > in the envelope that tells you what thread the transactions belong to. > > End of story IMHO. > > > > And yes - when you buy a ebMS package as an SME you expect all > > this stuff to just work - that is the job of the vendor / implementer. > > > > We have to be careful to not cross over and write product > > implementation specifications for vendors. That is not our job. > > > > I think ebXML dev is a better place to discuss implementation > > details with vendors and developers and ask them how they > > are solving such matters for their customers. > > > > Thanks, DW > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Anders W. Tell" <anderst@toolsmiths.se> > > To: "ebxml bp tc" <ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org> > > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 5:45 AM > > Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] Episodical memory requirement > > > > > > > >>HI Sacha, > >> > >>Sacha Schlegel wrote: > >> > >> > >>>It should be obvious, that in a ebBP if you send a purchase order > >>>confirmation, that is based on the purchase order which happens in the > >>>same ebBP. I think ebXML messages (assuming that the ebXML messages have > >>>the same name as the payload documents) include references to the > >>>previous message ... so you should be able to trace the purchase order > >>>back from a purchase order confirmation (by the persistent/archiving > >>>ebXML BSI, ebXML Messaging Service Handler). > >>> > >>> > >> > >>The questions that concerns me are.... > >>What is the value of buying, from SME point of view, a very expensive > >>ebBP compliant system when it can't do more for you, What is the value > >>from a business automation POV when you can't relate documents exchanges > >>to each other? > >>Whats the value of a ebBP system if you still have to code neccessary > >>and obvious business rules yourself and when at the same time its simple > >>to do all the coding by hand? > >>What is the time to market and lifetime cost for a small SME software > >>provider supporting traditional and relativly simple message exchange > >>scenarions? Should they buy a ebBP system+code neccessary business rules > >>OR implement, test, support a ebBP system+code neccessary business rules > >>OR implement the scenarios directly ? Most likelly the third option is > >>costeffective for a great number of software or business system > >>providers with requirement to support few scenarions. > >> > >>thanks > >>/anders > >> > >>-- > >>///////////////////////////////////// > >>/ Business Collaboration Toolsmiths / > >>/ website: <www.toolsmiths.se> / > >>/ email: <anderst@toolsmiths.se> / > >>/ phone: +46 8 562 262 30 / > >>/ mobile: +46 70 546 66 03 / > >>///////////////////////////////////// > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >
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