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Subject: Comments in General Category


Since I finished analyzing the comments pertaining to
the Application Guidelines category early, John Sabo
let me pick up his General category. So... at the end
of this message you'll find my analysis of the comments
in that category.

I hope you get a chance to review these comments by
Monday. But I think John and Ross were right to schedule
a meeting the following week, since we have a *lot*
of comments to cover!

Thanks,

Steve

---------------

General Comments:

steve.hanna@sun.com-20031020-General-1
Brief Quote:
  P. 4. end, typo: s/Because of/Because
  p. 7. typo: s/should unbiased/should be unbiased
Commentary/Recommendation:
  Good catches. Let's fix these.

steve.hanna@sun.com-20031020-General-2
Brief Quote:
  There's been a trend in the standards in recent years to
  hide and reduce the complexity of PKI by moving it to servers
  (ex: XKMS, DPV/DPD, DSS) but most of these standards are still
  in development or haven't been in the market long enough or have
  had enough application support to know if they will be successful
  in that goal. Does the group plan to encourage deployment of
  these standards as a way to reduce the cost & complexity of
  applications using PKI?
Commentary/Recommendation:
  I didn't see any widespread call for this in the textual
  responses to our survey. Personally, I think that delegated
  path discovery and validation are really only useful in a
  few environments (like cell phones, where bandwidth and
  processing power at the phone are precious). Generally, I
  think they only push the complexity to another spot in
  the network. Also, adding another layer will reduce efficiency,
  increase complexity, and make it harder to track down problems.
  So I'm inclined to ignore this comment (effectively answering
  "No" to the question).

steve.hanna@sun.com-20031020-General-3
Brief Quote:
  I think the action items may be placing too much emphasis on
  applications and not enough on the infrastructure. You may
  be able to come up with a simple profile/guidelines for
  using and developing secure email, but if it is still too hard
  and too much cost to obtain and manage a certificate (or the
  benefits of using it are too low), then I think the ball stops
  there, so to speak.
Commentary/Recommendation:
  This is an insightful comment and not unique. See comments
  steve.hanna@sun.com-20031105-General-6 and
  anders.rundgren@telia.com-20031016-General-15 for repeats.
  Several textual comments on the follow-up survey complained
  that off-the-shelf applications and operating systems cannot
  obtain a certificate. They must be customized to work with
  the CA (often by loading vendor-specific software, which may
  not be available for many applications).

  I recommend that we add an Action Item calling for the
  selection of a single standard certificate enrollment
  and management protocol (probably a profile of one of
  the existing protocols in this area). I know this is a
  political swamp and this Action Item may not be achievable,
  but we shouldn't ignore this problem.

jhilton@viviale.com-20031021-General-4
Brief Quote:
  ECAF 1> Jeremy, I think the most relevant question (again) is what
  budget OASIS have to implement this action plan (which fortunately can 
  be called realistic rather than over-ambitious). That is where the PKI 
  Forum had most problems with, even though in those days they must have 
  had sufficient budgets - I fear they may not nowadays.. Especially 
  action item 2 (PKI interoperability testing, cfr. our pkiC) is known 
  to cost quite a bit, just to get people focused and hence get things 
  moving. I also hope, and we should urge them, that they will not 
  duplicate pkiC, but rather build on it, that's also what we did when 
  we embarked on pkiC early 2001: we used whatever was available and 
  useful coming from the PKI Forum.
  
  ECAF 2> Jeremy, I fully support <ECAF 1's> comments. I would add that
  as well as pkiC, the OASIS activity should also take into 
  consideration the recent interoperability work undertaken in Japan.
Commentary/Recommendation:
  The question about budgets is very appropriate, but it does not
  recognize that the PKI TC is not planning on executing these
  Action Items ourselves. We intend to act as a coordinator and
  catalyst. I expect that these Action Items will be executed by
  standards groups (which largely depend on vendors' employees)
  and industry labs (for interoperability testing). I expect that
  interoperability testing would be funded by fees paid by the
  participants. Action Items 3 and 4 (Ask App Vendors What They
  Need and Educational Materials) may be executed more by the TC
  itself, but I still don't see us needing a lot of budget for
  these items. To clarify this, we should fill in more details
  for each Action Item, finding parties who are willing to work
  with us on these and developing a specific timeline (and budget,
  as necessary) for each one. That will help to clarify things.

  As for building on earlier work (by the EEMA, JNSA, and others),
  we should definitely do that. And we should add text saying so
  explicitly when we add more specific details for the Action Items.

steve.hanna@sun.com-20031024-General-5
Brief Quote:
  Neal McBurnett said Open Source software is very
  important for driving PKI adoption. A lot of projects
  start small as informal pilots. Without free software
  (CA software and document signing and email...), this
  can't happen and adoption is slowed.
Commentary/Recommendation:
  See also steve.hanna@sun.com-20031105-General-7
  and steve.hanna@sun.com-20031014-General-12.
  This comment underlines the textual comments from
  the survey calling for free software for low assurance
  PKIs. I have also heard this comment from several other
  people. We should definitely add an Action Item
  relating to this.

steve.hanna@sun.com-20031105-General-6
Brief Quote:
  In reviewing the draft action plan, an area of concern is
  the usage of the term "interoperable". [...] This term is
  overused and rarely clearly defined for the specific context
  intended. Some vendors and participants may presume the
  interoperability problem to exist between PKI implementations.
  Others may recognize the interoperability problems as
  being between applications enabled to use PKI and the
  particular PKI implementations of interest. Still others
  may choose to focus on application interoperability when the
  applications have been enabled to use the same PKI.
  It would be helpful to clearly state the context and
  boundaries of the term "interoperability".
Commentary/Recommendation:
  This comment seems to be implying that the real interop
  problems are "between applications enabled to use PKI and
  the particular PKI implementations of interest" and
  between applications on the same PKI. So I think this
  is partly a repeat of steve.hanna@sun.com-20031020-General-3.
  It also raises the legitimate point that whatever aspect
  of interoperability we decide to focus on, we should
  make this clearer in the PKI Action Plan.

steve.hanna@sun.com-20031105-General-7
Brief Quote:
  I agree that reference implementations of PKI and
  of applications enabled to use PKI will be a major
  contributor to the success of ALL PKIs.
Commentary/Recommendation:
  Repeat of steve.hanna@sun.com-20031024-General-5.

steve.hanna@sun.com-20031105-General-8
Brief Quote:
  And as you have said, if more focus is placed on specific
  functional areas (such as certificate path validation)
  for standardization rather than the proliferation of
  substantially repetitive ways to "skin the cat", the
  result will be better building blocks.
Commentary/Recommendation:
  I think this is a repeat of the complaints about multiple
  overlapping standards heard from survey respondents.
  The call for application guidelines should address this.

steve.hanna@sun.com-20031105-General-9
Brief Quote:
  As we are seeing in [my organization], the "build it
  and they will come" mentality will only carry us so far.
Commentary/Recommendation:
  This speaks to the importance of having real and
  valuable applications for PKI. The high rating for the
  "Too Much Focus on Technology, Not Enough on Need"
  obstacle backs this up. Maybe the Educational Action
  Item should include documenting specific uses for
  PKI. I know, the vendors already have these on their
  web sites. But that's not where people go for unbiased
  analysis.

steve.hanna@sun.com-20031105-General-10
Brief Quote:
  Also, to answer one of your focus questions, I think that
  to take two years for fruitful technical guidance may be
  under-ambitious. I understand by my own experience,
  though, that the consensus-building effort can be tedious
  and drawn out.
Commentary/Recommendation:
  I hope some of our Action Items can be completed within
  a year, but it will take longer than that to see real
  improvements in products. I suspect it would be very
  useful to have a timeline for each Action Item showing
  what we hope to accomplish and when.

sead@dsv.su.se-20031108-General-11
Brief Quote:
  You have indicated four action items in your Action Plan. I think they
  all can be covered very effectively with two actions: (1) create an
  operational platform (middleware) with all necessary PKI functions,
  supported by, of course, PKI engines, clients, CA Servers, protocols,
  etc; and (2) create a set of educational materials for usage of PKI
  
  If (1) is available it solves the first three items from your Action
  Plan: usage of APIs (object, methods) provides Application Guidelines,
  "backend" testing of different functions, objects, and protocols
  performed by interested vendors who support the same STANDARDIZED set
  of PKI functions solves your item 2, and do not ask application
  vendors what they need, just offer them ready-to-use Dev Platform for
  PKI services.
  
  I am writing this suggestion on behalf of my  company, SETECS
  Corporation, which has such a platform and we are willing to offer it
  experimentally to the interested members of the OASIS Consortium.
Commentary/Recommendation:
  What a blatant commercial plug! It's neither practical nor
  desirable to standardize on a single set of PKI libraries.
  Among other problems, this wouldn't work for Open Source
  applications and pure Java applications. I recommend that
  we ignore this comment.

steve.hanna@sun.com-20031014-General-12
Brief Quote:
* Prebaked PKI configurations have been tried and
  they weren't used. Like PKI Lite.
* The reason why they haven't been used is that it's
  so hard to get lightweight CA and application software.
Commentary/Recommendation:
  Repeat of steve.hanna@sun.com-20031024-General-5
  with respect to need for free CA and application
  software. With respect to "prebaked PKI configurations"
  (aka "cookbooks"), this was requested in the
  written comments of the follow-up survey. I still
  think it would be useful, especially when combined
  with free software.

steve.hanna@sun.com-20031014-General-13
Brief Quote:
  Are you [the PKI TC] going to act before February?
Commentary/Recommendation:
  Adding schedule information to the Action Items
  should help with questions about schedules. Also,
  we *should* act soon by filling in "TBD" in the
  Action Items. But I don't think we need to act
  before February, except for getting our Action Plan
  better worked out.

steve.hanna@sun.com-20031014-General-14
Brief Quote:
> Too Much Focus on Technology, Not Enough on Need [highly ranked]

  Instead of "more education for management and users" (which is like
  saying "You're not smart enough!") I think what you're hearing is
  level-headed folks pointing out that PKI is not magic pixie dust. I
  think the appropriate response to this one is to focus on applications
  and specific requirements of significant user communities.

  That's what you're starting to do in terms of the focus on application
  guidelines for document signing, secure email and electronic commerce,
  so that's good.
Commentary/Recommendation:
  Another endorsement of our approach! But maybe we should remove
  the part of the Action Plan where we say "You're not smart enough!"
  Oh, we don't say that anywhere. What do you know! ;-)

anders.rundgren@telia.com-20031016-General-15
Brief Quote:
  It seems that the standards used for on-line certification suffer
  from a real-world disconnect as well as being non-standard.
  Microsoft's Xenroll is a non-portable solution.  I'm
  puzzled that nobody digs into this as on-line certification
  schemes are the only thing that scales.  The real-world
  disconnect is that in all *real* certification schemes for
  individuals the *provider* wants to control every parameter
  it can.  BTW, if somebody is interested in this area I'm
  interested in doing something here!
Commentary/Recommendation:
  Repeat of steve.hanna@sun.com-20031020-General-3.

anders.rundgren@telia.com-20031016-General-16
Brief Quote:
  AFAIK none of the major leading or obscure vendors
  of PKI-enabled cards have donated support to Windows.
Commentary/Recommendation:
  I'm not sure what change should be made to the PKI Action
  Plan in response to this comment. None that I can see.

jpawluk@inovant.com-20031019-General-17
Brief Quote:
  As I have often said, just as a airplane is a very complex
  bit of machinery that somehow gets off the ground and can
  transport me from one location to another as a passenger,
  we need to make security solutions such as PKI as easy to
  use from the passenger (user) point of view. I don't want
  to know about the mechanism unless I am the mechanic or
  pilot. I just want to pay my fare and to my destination.
Commentary/Recommendation:
  This emphasizes the focus on needs instead of technology.
  With respect to user interface and simpler products, I'm
  inclined to let the marketplace select those whose UI is
  better. Standards groups should agree on simpler, clearer
  standards that make it easier to set things up. But I'm
  not sure what else can be done about usability except by
  individual efforts of manufacturers. Also, "Hard for End
  Users to Use" was not ranked highly in our survey. Maybe
  vendors (such as Microsoft) are already starting to improve
  in this area. Or maybe there are just lots of other obstacles
  that our survey respondents consider more important. In any
  case, I recommend that we not do anything about this now.


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