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Subject: Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 28 June 2022 uploaded
- From: Nancy Harrison<nharrison@infobridge-solutions.com>
- To: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
- Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:10:57 +0000 (UTC)
Submitter's message
Action Items:
1. Robert will update @impose-role proposal (#670) in light of today's discussion, and get it out to reviewers (Carsten, Gershon)
2. Kris will think about where to document the caveat re: hyphens not underscores in OASIS filenames.
3. everyone will continue to think about potential new TC members.
4. Kris will add a note to proposal #647 wrt current lack of processing expectations, along with TC's possible future plans for processing expectations around this work.
=================================================
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 28 June 2022
Recorded by Hancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://wiki.OASIS-open.org/dita/PreviousAgendas
Attendance:
===========
Robert Anderson, Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Nancy Harrison, Scott Hudson, Gershon Joseph, Eliot Kimber, Zoe Lawson, Eric Sirois, Dawn Stevens, Frank Wegmann, Jim Tivy, Bill Burns
Business
========
1. Roll call
Regrets: Carsten Brennecke, Keith Schengili-Roberts
2. Approve minutes from previous business meeting:
21 June 2022
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202206/msg00053.html (Eberlein)
moved by Kris, 2nd Dawn, approved by TC
3. Announcements - none
4. Action items
[updates only; see agenda for complete list]
5. Review of DITA 2.0 proposal deadlines
https://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/DeadlinesDITA2.0
- Kris; only update is that we have a request from Robert for early feedback on proposal #670.
6. DITA 2.0 stage two proposals
Feedback
# 670 "Impose role"
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202206/msg00057.html (Anderson, 24 June 2022)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202206/msg00058.html (Joseph, 26 June 2022)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202206/msg00060.html (Kimber, 27 June 2022)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202206/msg00062.html (Eberlein, 27 June 2022)
- Robert; wrt @impose role, when you have a chapter that refs a map, you need to be able to call them chapters. The spec stipulates that 'this might apply, and be sure to specify it if it does'; but there's no way to do so. So @impose-role is only meant to be effective if youre ref'ing a map with your topicref, if you are, can impose a role for it. I have 2 issues
1. I don't like the name,
2. What do we want for values for this @?
I definitely don't want a binary (yes/no) type of thing; we've run into trouble with doing that before, when the binary turned out not to be sufficient. So one possible is 'keeptarget' or 'overridetarget,' so chapter would override whaterver it's referencing.
- Kris; I had feedback from Gershon; he suggested consider hyphenating @ name and values associated with it for human readability. There was also feedback from Eliot.
- Eliot; I agree with Gershon on hyphenation. I'd also suggest that the value "impose" might be better value than the original idea, it's more consistent with @ name itself.
- Robert; we could use "impose" rather than "override", but I don't want a binary...
- Eliot; I agree with that; why don't we use "keeptarget", but replace "overridetarget" with "impose", to be consistent with @ name.
- Robert; I can agree with that.
- Kris; wrt hyphenation, we have that for some, camelcase for others. so we're okay to use that. Anyone have strong preferences?
[none]
- Robert; so I'll update the values to "impose" and "overridetarget", but I don't think we need hyphens.
- Kris; Eliot, you had another question as well. (see mail
- Eliot; it's sort of addressed, but not crisp. Specifically, we need to clearly stipulate the implications for multiple levels of indirection: does the explicit or implicit @imposerole value on the initial keyreffing topicref apply to the ultimate target? I think that?s the intent but that?s not quite what the current draft says. So, if i have a keydef that says "keep-target", I think any @imposerole value would need to be ignored.
- Robert; I don't think @impose-role should be pulled in as part of a keydef definition; we'll get bad results.
- Eliot; so @impose-role is only effective when specified on the initial reference.
- Kris; so only on a topicref or topicref specialization.
- Eliot; so a resource-only topicref that specifies @impose-role, could never be effectiiiiive.
- Kris; I agree that @impose-role would be meaningless in that case.
- Eliot; so @impose-role is ony meaningful on topicrefs that aren't @resource-only.
- Kris; do we want to have @impose-role available on keydefs?
- Eliot; not on a keydef itself.
- Kris; but it needs to be available on topicresfs that can't be keydefs.
- Robert; but it needs to be on there anyway, for setting the default value.
- Eliot; I agree.
***ActionItem: Robert will update proposal and get it out to reviewers (Carsten, Gershon)
7. DITA 2.0 stage three proposals
Any update on #647?
- Kris; Eliot Carsten, Gershon and I had a call to discuss #647; we resolved some comments, and we have one open item left; to suggest additional wording for subjectrefs @ topic. which will appear in the part of the spec that deals with subjectScheme maps. I think we were leaning towards avoiding issues by adding a note that TC wasn't specifying processing expectations for this @ in 2.0, but intended to do so in the future.
- Eliot; no problem with that.
- Kris; so I'll draft a note to that effect and run it by Carsten/Gershon/Robert, etc. and if possible have it before TC next week.
***ActionItem: Kris will add a note to proposal #647 wrt TCs possible future plans for processing expectations around this work.
8. Review O: Accessibility
Opening of review: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202206/msg00033.html (Eberlein, 14 June 2022)
Important: Specific requirements for how reviewers should enter review comments in Content Fusion
Status: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202206/msg00044.html (Eberlein, 21 June 2022)
Comment about a screen reader recording:
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202206/msg00067.html (Eberlein, 28 June 2022)
- Kris; there's just one open quesiton, about a screen reader recording, brought up by Bob Johnson.
- Robert; recording would require a few things;
1. an app that does the screen reading.
2. ability to define a useful path thru the table; we'd need a table example conducive to screen
3. a transcript of that recording
This would end up being a lot of new content that needs to be thought out and designed. My preference is that we leave that to a white paper devoted to accessibility that talks about it.
- Eliot; I agree; moving that to a white paper or CN makes sense.
- Kris; that was one of my comments; I'm hoping he can join the TC and offer a CN on accessibility, to offer some of his comments from the review. We'll mark this as deferred as future work in a CN but not the spec.
9. DITA 1.x to 2.0 migration work
Update about the committee note:
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202206/msg00066.html (Lawson, 28 June 2022)
Wiki page: Migrating DITA 1.x to DITA 2.0
- Zoe; Eliot an I met last week, he offered to do a first pass on migration bits; I don't have technical expertise for some of the work. I'm still going to offer editorial feedback.
- Kris; thanks for including your link to migration repo; Eliot; we can't use underscores in filenames for OASIS, we need to use hyphens instead by their rules. I can point you to a easy free utility that does that to a set of files.
- Zoe; I didn't know that.
- Kris; it's bitten us multiple times, including with LwD. Early on in DITA we had them, and got away with it, but no longer.
- Zoe; I know that guidance is probably somewhere in the OASIS site, but do we have it somewhere on our site?
- Kris; no we don't, unfortunately.
- Kris; we might be able to put them in the readme.
***ActionItem: Kris will think about where to document the caveat re: hyphens not underscores in filenames.
10. Review tooling: Evaluation of Content Fusion
Two current reviews:
Stage three proposal for #647: https://fusion.oxygenxml.com/tasks/3dgikmnbacaj012ue4qu2ikmhqsn4u8m8iqebsmcgjodkl3t
Accessibility content for DITA 2.0 spec: https://fusion.oxygenxml.com/tasks/u28lvh1veqdsf3i7eap78geq1r0v2lneg406p3mocn017ud0
PDFs that archive review comments
Stage three proposal: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202206/msg00054.html (Eberlein, 23 June 2022)
Accessibility review: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202206/msg00068.html (Eberlein, 28 June 2022)
Discussion of spec editors' workflow and processes in a review?
- Kris; if we go to ContentFusion (CF), then everyone who does a CN will need to use it. We have 2 reviews open; for one, we're using native CF features, for other, we asked people to use draft-comments. We get different PDFs for us to use in ongoing work.
- Scott; unfortunately, CF has some bugs in their rendering process; they're trying to troubleshoot them. In othe reviews, we've been able to use other rendering.
- Kris; if we use native comment functionality, we'll get this overlapping rendering effect.
- Scott; they're aware of the problem.
- Kris; the version using draft-comment is much easier to use, though it's a bit more work for reviewers...
- Eliot; as a reviewer, i didn't find it much more onerous.
- Kris; the draft-comment method gives us ability to assign disposition ot each review comment, which is just not available in native CF. We're running into the fact that DITAWeb is very different from CF; CF is very good at flagging every change to DITA, but less helpful in recording disposition of comments.
- Scott; it looks like they have a way to mark a comment as 'done', but I don't know exactly what that means.
- Kris; I couldn't figure that out either. In Oxygen,o once you've accepted something, you can't use CF to search for things.
- Robert; it comes down to learning a new tool.
- Kris; I want to discuss our process; if soeone makes a comment in a review, every comment gets responded to, and every one gets a disposition. Ideally, all ocmments would be in 'completed' or 'closed' stage. If we move to CF, how do we track whether we've responded to all the comments? And is there a way in CF to find all the comments, without scrolling thru every page?
- Scott; it does have a toggle for each comment, gets inserted into PIs for that comment.
- Kris; but I still don't see how that gives Robert and I a way to track all the work we've done.
- Scott; when it's marked as done, coloring changes to show it's resoived.
- Kris; but I just don't see how that helps us enough. And we need to be careful about what we ask them for; we may need to change our processes, i'm looking at using the draft-comment approach, and asking Oxygen to do some work on that.
- Scott; do we have an @ on draft-comment we could use?
- Kris; the disposition @, that's what we're using now,,.
11. Recruiting companies and people to the DITA TC
Update about Hewlett Packard Enterprise (HPE) (Eberlein)
Wiki page: Companies with and without DITA TC membership
Who do you know who would be an asset to the TC?
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202206/msg00003.html (Eberlein, 03 June 2022)
- Kris; I've been trying to make some progress, but it's complicated. It's good to have Bill Burns back.
- Bill; looking to become a voting member.
- Kris; I know Kristen Toole at Adobe. what about Cisco?
- Gershon, I know Karthikeyan Rengasamy, but I don't know how interested he's be in the work. I can reach out to try and twist his arm again...
- Kris; are there other people at Cisco who might be be more appropriate?
- Gershon; all the ones I knew have since left Cisco.
- Kris; anyone else?
- Bill; Julio Vasquez is there.
- Gershon; is Julio still there?
- Bill; I believe so.
- Kris; what about Dassault?
- Eric; I don't know anyone at Dasault directly, but there's someone at a subsidiary maybe, I could ask.
- Kris; that would be great. What about dell?
- Dawn; they're not the ones on this list, but we have lots of clients at Dell.
- Kris; I do know Stuart Bagwell; I could reach out to him.
Please, everyone, look thru this list and see if you know anyone at these companies, and if you could use help from me before reaching out to folks.
12 noon ET close
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison
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