DRAFT AGENDA - OpenCSA Steering Committee (StC) Draft Agenda - 09 January 2008 9:00 AM PST Call-In Information: Participant passcode 370491 North America Toll free 1-888-240-4148 Toll/International +1-719-234-0214 London, UK, Local +44 (0) 20 7663 2217 UK toll free 0 800 051 6872 *6 mute/un-mute, *0 operator, *1 help NEW ACTION ITEMS: AI20090109-001 - Mike to agenda discussion for feedback from the LSC regarding milestone adjustment at next SC meeting (Feb 13th, 2009). See #3 below for more info. AI20090109-002 - Bob to create and distribute a document around the compliance topic. See #4 below for more info. 0. Agenda bashing and Roll Attending: Voting Members (X = Attended) X David Burke X Bob Freund X Anil Gurnani X Mike Kaiser (Secretary/Vice-Chair) X Mark Little X Jeff Mischkinsky (Chair) X Sanjay Patil Apologies: OASIS Staff: Robin Cover Jane Harnad Scott McGrath Mary McRae Dee Schur Identified Observers: Notes: Mike Kaiser NO CHANGES. 1. Minutes Approval - 12 December 2008: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/opencsa-ms/download.php/30378/Open_CSA_SC_20081212_Draft.txt Motion to approve: Mike Kaiser Seconded: Mark Little No discussion. APPROVED unanimously. 2. Open Action Item Review and Discussion AI20081212-001 - Coordinate an effort with Assembly TC to produce an SCA primer as the specs approach standardization (in review). Status: On Hold until we get closer to standardization. AI20081212-002 - Jeff to post OASIS Steering Committee calendar with 2009 meetings. Status: Done...thanks Jeff!! AI20081212-003 - Jeff and Sanjay to agenda TC milestone discussion at next LSC meetings (Dec/Jan) and update member section when information is available. Status: Has been focus of the discussion at the LSC. Jeff waiting for one more piece of information on the bindings TC. Will close this action item as done as work will be ongoing as part of the line items 3 and 4 below. AI20081212-004 - Mike to agenda continuation of compliant implementations and SC spec approval expectations for next meeting (Jan 09). Status: Done (see agenda item #4). AI20081212-005 - Mike to agenda discussion with Mark at next meeting (Jan 09) about Java One. Status: Done (See agenda item #5). 3. Overall TC Milestones Status as discussed by LSC: Tentative dates for key milestones: Sep 15, 2008 - Raise the bar for opening new issues (TC optional) Sep 29, 2008 - Incorporate RFC 2119 language Nov 15, 2008 - Detailed design for testing work Jan 23, 2009 - Assembly TC to start 1st Public Review (60 day) Feb 23, 2009 - Other TCs to start 1st Public Review (60 day) May 31, 2009 - Finish all the work July 4, 2009 - Submit specs to OASIS for OS vote These dates need to be adjusted. At the last meeting there The LSC was to revisit the schedule dates at their next meeting (scheduled for the week of Dec 15th (or failing that their first meeting in 2009). SC will hold until it sees a revised schedule from the LSC. Is there any update from this LSC discussion? DISCUSSION: Currently being carried on by a couple action items in the LSC. Waiting on C++ and Testing Subcommittee. Most of the implementations will be able to meet the schedule. A few may have to deferr to a later date (i.e. we may have to adopt a phased approach where there are two groups of specification milestones with one trailing the other by a month or so. Trying to investigate a phased release manner of doing this. Two Issues/Challenges to be resolved: A) Testing Effort. B) What's the definition of being SCA 1.1 compliance. LSC is handling both. Looking at proposals and Will provide recommendation proposals to the Steering Committee. Current idea: 1) Grouping of those on time. 2) Those that cannot make the first date. LSC has AI's to go figure out what if anything that they may have to contribute in the necessary time frame. ACTION: AI20090109-001 The LSC meets every week. We should have more concrete information by next call on Feb 13th. We should talk about this then. Jeff/Sanjay will report updates from the LSC. 4. Compliant implementation plans We know that we need something about mid year. There are several companies working this but implementation timing is unknown. Open Source (Apache Tuscany, looks to be one source for at least some of the TC's). Each TC will have to make it's own decision on what compliant implementations they are going to use based on what's available in the timeframe of standardization and what their test plan looks like. The SC must eventually resolve the question of "how it will make approval decisions" and communicate this to the TC's. It is expected that the Testing Plans for each TC will incorporate implementation/testing aspects which encompass the broader "SCA" picture. Continue this discussion from last meeting. DISCUSSION: This is really the big question. Defining the testing and then getting the implementations for that. We will have to determine the minimum bar that we are going to accept in approving finalization of the various specifications. Implementation may be a bigger problem. There may be companies working on but are reluctant to disclose this without knowing the testing plan. Also because of the worldwide financial situation companies may no longer have the confidence to project too far into the future on resources etc... What constitutes an implementation? Does it have to be publically available? Does it have to be commercially generally available code? Does it have to be at the Proof of Concept level or can it simply be handcrafted scripts which may not be even public? The general consensus at this time is that until we know more, we should encourage as broad definition as we can and worry about restricting only, if necessary. In general we probably should adopt the initial notion that, if it passes all the tests then let it be a potential implementation candidate. In general, there is an hierarchy of acceptable implementation examples. The list below is an example of this, where it is most preferable to use the higher number on the list. 1) If you view the implementations simply as a way to debug the specs, it doesn't matter if the implementation is commercially available. It's not as good as a commercially available or beta product, but it is acceptable. It could be a compliance made up of scripts. Thought the preference is that these scripts be made publically available, it doesn't have to be this way. 2) The next level of implementation is one where the compliant implementation is publically available via the OASIS server. It doesn't have to be a commercial product/beta level, but should be available for others to use as part of testing their compliance against the spec. 3) The most preferable level of implementation is one that is commercially generally available (this includes open source releases). This is also the most difficult level to achieve for a new specification as ship release cycles can be on the order of years. Often times, until after the first public review, companies won't invest a lot of time because of the potential changes involved as the spec stabilizes. Is there guidance from other OASIS committees that we could look to? Answer: It ranges all over the board so, "not really". You are likely to find examples of all. We'd like to have a definition with as much meaning as possible associated with it. Ideas from TC's as to what they mean by conformance. The goal is that we provide enough of the moving parts to respond to the question "is my implementation compliant?" ACTION: AI20090109-002 Bob to ask that a document be produced or at least generated to facilitate the discussion. Testing and implementation phase. Assembly Testing appears to be going in the right direction. This should be publicized across the TC community for consistency. Martin pointed ou that there is an Assembly f2f around the 23rd. Therefore, it won't be likely Jan 23rd but more like end of Feb. before its public review. This would suggest that the current milestone schedule is off by about a month. 5. Java One Participation (June 2-5, 2009) discussion Mark had raised the question about whether we would sponsor another SCA panel or BoF session at the next Java One conference in June 2009. SC was ok with this if Mark wanted to drive. Status? DISCUSSION: Mark didn't hear of anything happening before he went on vacation. He is on the selection committee and thinks he remembers something for a panel session a week or so ago, but it is possible that it could have been a post from the last Java One conference. ACTION: AI20090109-003 Mark to double check and email his findings. 6. Any Other Business? None 7. Future SC Agenda Topics? None added. 8. Next Meeting - The next regular teleconference is scheduled for February 13th, 2009 9:00am PST, 12:00pm EST, 5:00pm UK (OpenCSA Steering Committee calls are scheduled for the second Friday of each month.) 9. Adjourn